Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by Grabbit, Dec 5, 2001.

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  1. xcowboy


    The matter regarding SL4 is simple...all of you have your choice regarding trading platforms...most platforms offer very similar features and are ticket based...If you are scalping, the cents per share model at 1 cents per share with a small minimum allows for profitability on relatively small moves...Let's face it...the direct access pipelines are being swallowed up by the big firms..the regulations have recently upped the minimum to $25k....The forex...eminis...single stock futures will have lessor minimums...SL4 is a fantastic scalping tool that one can learn on live without the big seminar fees...chat room fees...in practice mode...with all these asset classes you will be able to trade something 24 hours per day...from anywhere in the world where you have decent connectivity...SL4 will be an excellent provider of short term trading information and has an incredible edge over Real Tick...VTS...REDI...Tradecast...Instaquote...IB...SL4 proves itself real time every day to be the best trading technology ever invented...you are welcomed to examine this for yourself because if you are trading you can only be on one of the other me-too look-alike platforms that are asking you to pay seminar fees...chat room fees...read books...whatever...The SL4 philosophy is simple...lets put it all out in the open and prove it real time...all of the time...just period...all the negative or positive chat coming from anybody for any reason has nothing to do with the real time live performance of SL4 information...If any trader who has an interest in short term price movements and thinks that the other me-too platforms can compete with SL4 obviously are amateurs and know nothing about trading and use chat rooms for some form of entertainment...:D
    #21     Dec 15, 2001
  2. Phoenix1


    I've been reading this thread and I've got to say that it seems like everyone in here is missing the point. aldrum saws mjt's concern about a 2 second delay was never addressed. Yet it says specifically that SL4 is compatible with multiple quote vendors. So the question is, when mjt was demoing, which data feed was he demoing SL4 with? The issue here would be with the data vendor, not with the product that uses the quote feed! Regarding a 5 second execution delay on an Island marketable order in a simulator, if that causes a problem for someone, well, learn about trading then! Things happen when trading, and even with Island's speed, sometimes systems hiccup and you get late fills, or delays, or misses, etc. If the issue was everytime a LIVE order going to island took 5 seconds, or even 10% of the time, then I'd say something's rather screwy there. But in a DEMO mode, all I've seen from most simulators is instant execution at just about any price you enter, or no fill sometimes at the most reasonable prices. The way I would see it, if someone can make money dealing with a 5 second Island delay on a simulation, they should only be able to do better live. In fact, yesterday, using IB's system, several trades I tried to close, I was almost sure I should have hit Island THAT SECOND, and it didn't. Then it seemed to take a few seconds to cancel, then a quote came back, then dissappeared. Maybe it had to do with their interface layout, or a technical issue, I'm not sure. All I know is that I finally closed out with only half the initial profit on the trade 10 seconds later. So, the point? Well, I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when I go live from demo than consistantly worse off then what I had originally expected. SL4 offers a free week trial (though you need a compatible datafeed -- what real trader doesn't have access to a professional quality datafeed anyway?! Guess that's another issue...) So before all these people jump at each other, why don't they try the darn thing first and make up their own mind! In the end, it's quite true... Who cares who made what or how much or anything else. Will this help me trade more efficiently and make more money at the price that it's offered at? That's the only question a REAL trader should really care about. So, maybe we can cut some of the negativity and flaming in here and focus on some of the real issues we all are actually interested in. Let's hear from people who have tried the system and why (or why not) they feel it can help them trade more successfully or more efficiently. As a final point, if Level II data is analyzed (sometimes referred to as, ?? marketmaker data ??), well, doesn't that INCLUDE ECN DATA TOO -- I never saw a Level II feed not show ISLD or INCA or REDI or the like?????? So, "private trader" aldrum and others, I'm very interested in seeing your next post -- hopefully describing what platform you are all using now, and how SL4 compares to it -- why it's better or worse versus YOUR particular trading style.

    Happy Trading!
    #22     Dec 15, 2001
  3. Steve72


    Now come on Aldrums, these selected excerpts from their site appear clear and concise....NOT!

    Real-Time Tactical Intelligence and Decision Support System

    A Complete Market Maker Data Analysis System with Proprietary Graph Algorithms integrated with All Procedures

    The Most Advanced Statistical/Mathematical and Comprehensive Implementation of Professional Trader Activity and Influence Ever Achieved in Real-Time Mission-Critical Analytics.

    RealTime Descrimant Determination of Market Opportunities via Strategic Surveillance Systems

    Multidimensional Scaling of Proprietary Graph Time Series

    WebEx - FlashDemo SPECTRE LEVEL IV Logic Trees for Definitive Trade Activation and Reaction Implementation

    Time Series and Money Management Risk Analysis of ALL Decision Support Intelligence Automatically Displayed Both During Market Session and Comprehensive Analysis Provided at Market Close.

    Provable, Reliable, and Statistically Consistent and Verifiable Value of Tactical Intelligence Data Provided.

    SPECTRE LEVEL IV Real-Time Responds and Relates to the Professional Trader the Mission-Critical Results of over 1,765,000 Proprietary Statistical, Mathematical, Probability, and Neuro-Analytical Surveillance Subroutines that Detect and Disclose the Intentions and Perceptions of the Leading MARKET FORCES on a second-by-second basis.

    And last but not least

    Automatically configures itself for Windows 95/98/2000/ME/NT

    So when do we blast off...my gosh it sounds like a system to take us to Mars![i/]
    #23     Dec 15, 2001
  4. mjt


    I still have the demo one more day. I will see if QCharts is delayed at all; if so the problem is on their end.
    #24     Dec 15, 2001
  5. Phoenix1


    mjt --

    I would have to say the issue is probably QCharts then. I love QChart's charts and interface and such, but they do have quote issues here and there. When QCharts is working smoothly it's great, especially at the price. And QCharts has gotten MUCH better recently, with many more improvements around the corner (or so I've heard). I have seen QCharts next to feeds like Realtick from Townsend, and especially if the market starts moving, Realtick definitely seems to be the best of the bunch I've seen (IF you block out ECN books from the RealTick montage -- their interface, the way they wrote it, can't even keep up with their own data it seems!) I've also seen Realtick next to AT-Financial. Everyone seems to believe AT is faster? Well, I was surprised to find that Realtick seemed to beat it almost consistantly when volume kicked up! And in fact, QCharts kept up quite well too, with the exception of a second or two delay if a big burst of market data came in, but then again, I noticed AT hiccup there too (but then again, I've have noticed RealTick do that here and there as well)... Of course, RealTick also costs $250+ / month. So, it's a big difference in price -- especially next to QCharts, but with all the ECN books (QCharts has only Island right now), and for the fact that it does seem pretty good datawise, well, there must be some reason I'm still paying for it too! ESignal is pretty good too I believe, but pricing can get near RealTick, and without even the ECN Book Data, well... still another to consider. If someone's using a 56k modem or less, I don't think any one quote feed would be much better than another. Personally, I would never even consider this type of trading without a highly reliable DSL-type connection to the Internet, but to each their own...
    #25     Dec 15, 2001
  6. I went through the SL4 site and I must say it is impressive. As I understood it, they analyze MM data and try to scalp in the direction of MM strength, although that is a gross oversimplification. I think I would not put this in the same category of vendor-promotors who post about that their chat rooms or stock touting sites. To me this is more like IB, ie. something that could be of real interest and value to us. Of course, it could be total crap. I think we could benefit from understnading more about the product and their approach and accordingly I would encourage the moderator to give them a little slack as long as they are trying to answer questions rather than just spewing out promotional material.

    From my brief review of the site, it seems a user overlays this product on the data feed and uses it as the quote/charting/trading interface and display. If you use RealTick, I don't know what happens to your RT pages and if you can use the RT order entry, etc.

    It seems to be designed for the trader to focus on two or three liquid stocks and trade them all day. Many signals seem to be given.

    I saw nothing on the site about position trading.

    I saw no mention of fees, although there is a demo download. Also, it is not obvious if you can use this with any RT broker or it must be one who partners with them.

    I saw no claims of win/loss or profitability.

    I would appreciate having these issues addressed by the reps who are on this thread.
    #26     Dec 15, 2001
  7. xcowboy


    >> From my brief review of the site, it seems a user overlays this product on the data feed and uses it as the quote/charting/trading interface and display. If you use RealTick, I don't know what happens to your RT pages and if you can use the RT order entry, etc.

    *** Each quote vendor's interface can be run along-side SL4 on the same computer, and any RealTick pages, etc, would not be affected. However, RealTick's order entry could not be used -- but who would want to use it anyway next to SL4's advanced Order Entry Manager and Execution features. SL4 does have to be used in conjunction with a live account with an SL4-licensed broker-dealer (more will be joining soon).

    >> It seems to be designed for the trader to focus on two or three liquid stocks and trade them all day. Many signals seem to be given.

    *** This is ONE way SL4 can be used. SL4 also provides proprietary tools such as the ActiVu, not to mention many other proprietary alert types, that are always using complex and proprietary algorithms to provide accurate indications of what is on the move moment-to-moment. If you had only seen the amazing alerts it provided the other day when the IMNX news was released! mjt -- were you able to catch that move in SL4 the other day?

    >> I saw nothing on the site about position trading.

    *** With regard to position trading, SL4 again offers many advantages for this type of trading as well. Of course, for someone already position trading the simplest advantage would be the immediate ability to select more accurate entry and exit points for the position. Between the proprietary charting algorithms, ChartTrend features which clearly describe the underlying trend on multiple timeframes, and the alerts and indications that can be provided on a basket of stocks and indices (to name JUST a few), any type of trader should find more than enough unique and proprietary features to prove to be a tremendous asset to them.

    >> I saw no mention of fees, although there is a demo download. Also, it is not obvious if you can use this with any RT broker or it must be one who partners with them.

    *** Again, it must be an SL4-Licensed Broker (more coming soon). Basically, the fee for SL4 is $100 / month + $1.50 per executed stock trade. It is up to each broker dealer how they plan to charge commission-wise. Right now, LGT is offering SL4 at $1 minimum per trade, 0.01 cent per share after, ECN fees extra. Some brokers may pass-through SL4 fees, others may include it in their base commission -- it's their decision.

    >> I saw no claims of win/loss or profitability. *** SL4 is not meant to be used to GO LONG when you see a LONG bias, and GO FLAT/GO SHORT when you see a SHORT bias. It is meant to provide the trader with a precise indication of where the stock is expected to go next, and should be co-confirmed using SL4's other proprietary features, the underlying market direction, and the trader's own analysis techniques -- WHATEVER makes the trader comfortable. If traders are not comfortable with the style of trading they're attempting, they will never be successful in the long run. SL4 provides unique LOW-RISK entry points, and each signal is completely separate. So, if you get a potential long bias, and then a potential short bias a minute later, that is meant as a new and unique trading opportunity. In fact, if a LONG and SHORT bias come near one another time-wise, both signals may be correct within the assessed risk parameters, and the stock may in fact begin a consolidation phase.!
    If the trader took the first long, he could use the sell bias to go flat, or to

    go short, or to do nothing at all. At the end of each day, SL4 provides a log of every signal, which shows the "Maximum Profit Potential" of each signal -- how far did the stock go in the signal's favor before the stock turned 0.25 (a quarter-point) against the entry point. The information included in the end-of-day log includes the following information:

    Symbol (TradeDate, TradeTime, Bid-Offer(U=UpBid,D=DnBid), TimeToBreakAboveOrBelowTrdPrice):
    DrawDown=[DDTime],[DDPrice],[DDLevels]; } Reflects DrawDown before Maximum Profit Potential Occurs
    Lo=[LowTime],[LowPrice]; } Lo/Hi is in order of occurrance, and may show EOD for trades
    Hi=[HighTime],[HighPrice]; } that were not stopped out before the close of the market that day
    PP=[ProfitPotential in Price & $$],[LevelsOfProfitPotential],[TimeToGetToHighOrLow]
    $$ ProfitPotential for Long = OFR to (HighOFR-0.01)
    $$ ProfitPotential for Short = BID to (LowBID+0.01)
    $$ for Long Wide Spread Trades (BID+0.01 to HighOFR-0.01)
    $$ for Short Wide Spread Trades (OFR-0.01 to LowBID+0.01)
    TimeToBreakAboveOrBelowTrdPrice =
    for LONG, when Signal's BID matches Signal's OFR;
    for SHORT, when Signal's OFR matches Signal's BID
    Trade Stamp created after:
    a) BID exceeds 0.25 point against LONG Signal's BID;
    b) OFR exceeds 0.25 point against SHORT Signal's OFR;
    c) End of Day

    Regarding the statement comparing SL4 to IB regarding "something that could be of interest to traders" -- that really hits the nail on the head. SL4 is meant to do for trader "battlefield" support, execution, analytics, and training what IB did for low-cost / low-"barrier of entry" direct access trading. To confirm that we are on the right track here, we have already been getting traders with IB accounts starting to join us. There is also an Order Execution API available (up to the broker-dealer to allow it or not, since there may be additional risk incurred) to directly pass a trader's own orders in automatically (if the trader has their own signal analytics, etc).

    As a final note, SL4 of course cannot in any way assure that a trader become successful. However, if a trader does not become successful using SL4 (whether it be psychological issues, gambling-mentality issues, or the like), there is little doubt in my mind they will trade successfully anywhere else or with any other trading platform. Hands down it simply provides traders with the best tactical and execution environment in order to maximize their chances of success.:)
    #27     Dec 15, 2001
  8. Rigel


    Just think, with this software trading will be so easy anybody can do it. And only $179/mo and they pay you 1% annual interest on your minimum $25,000 account balance. And their system tells you what to do. No more hard work. Like the saying goes "It's so easy!".
    Oh, this is just my opinion, and if you're stupid enough to believe it then you probably deserve what your going to get.:D
    #28     Dec 15, 2001
  9. xcowboy


    SL4's mission is simply to provide the trader a better direct access platform as compared objectively feature by feature ...

    SL4 tries to protect aspiring traders by providing a built in practice mode whereby one can have the opportunity to trade real time whereby there are no additional fees or financial risks involved in the learning process...hopefully traders can improve their results by live practicing without financial or peer pressures...

    Trading is not for everyone but for those who can attain proficiency, SL4 trading can be an ideal lifestyle.

    SL4 will make every attempt to provide the best trading information with respect to its peers. Nothing worthwhile is easy...however SL4 should make the task of trading a more attainable profession...Trading is a very personalized endeavor in terms of one's reaction and mental capabilities while their capital is at risk. SL4 does not tell you what to do...but gives you the best information in comparison to any other direct access platform...We would love to discuss feature by feature any other platform in comparison to the types of information that SL4 provides for this forum...we would like to discuss the specifics of any platform used in terms of what SL4 does that other platforms cannot provide you...If you currently use other direct access platforms, we would like to objectively discuss each platform's features and how they may compare directly to SL4's features.:)
    #29     Dec 15, 2001
  10. dkamp

    dkamp Guest

    I assume you (SL4) guys are familiar with TradeStation (my current chart package), so how would SL4 compare to its features (i.e., the latest TS 6 with built-in trading)? In particular, do you support something like its EasyLanguage, and, if so, have you fixed some of its shortcomings (such as not being able to access data across chart windows)? Am particularly interested in emini trading. Do you plan on supporting futures trade execution via the PATS system? Will you be supporting automated trading? Thanks.
    #30     Dec 15, 2001
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