lesson in economics that even a simple minded right winger can understand

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Free Thinker, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Deflation isn't the economic boogeyman that toothfairy economists believe it is .
     
    #61     Aug 16, 2012
  2. Complete nonsense govt spending is always inefficient.
    It's like gift giving on a huge scale.
    Either sentimentally overpaying for something the other person does value (but not so much as to actually spend their own money ) or getting something for nothing at another's expense.

    At least with gift giving the inefficiency is voluntary not so much with taxes.
    Also part of the efficiency problem is people who are given something, usually value what is given directly in proportion to the effort that it took for them to achieve it.
    There is no multiplier effect in either case, all you have done is pay an exorbitant premium for the sentiment.

    That may work out fine in interpersonal relationships but it's a disaster for a whole society to squander it's resources upon.
     
    #62     Aug 16, 2012
  3. OK, agree with you about a lot of government inefficiency, granted. Needs a LOT of improvement. However the basic premise of keeping some money moving is pretty basic economics. Is it better to let someone sit with no money to spend while unemployed, as an example, or to allow them to have some support for them and their families to spend to keep the money flowing locally?

    In the carrot example, it makes sense to use Aya's money for some fruitful use, no pun intended. IMO.
     
    #63     Aug 16, 2012
  4. That's the fallacy.

    Gross Inefficiency cannot be eliminated.
    Just like systemic market risk cannot be separated from investments, govt incompetence, unintended consequences and inefficiency cannot be wrung out of gubbermint spending. because that's the only thing gubbermint does well (ie: incompetence, unintended consequences and inefficiency).
     
    #64     Aug 16, 2012
  5. Your argument is further proof that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". I'm sure there were many advocates 30-40 years ago who said the exact same thing as it pertains to govt assistance for housing, medical care, food stamps, etc, etc...Unless there is a finite expiration on this form of government assistance, you run the risk of creating an entirely dependent class of citizenry.

    In more recent times, a perfect example is ZIRP. At the inception it was argued to be an emergency and temporary "stop gap" to an economy that was in "crisis mode". Here we are 4 years later and each policy meeting is a further extension of this "emercency policy". They've already assured us that it will run into 2015. Seven f'ing years of zero interest rates...

    Does anybody really believe that in 2015-16, they will be able to raise rates even 100-200 bps? Imagine the debt load in another four years of reckless spending to try and "stimulate" a broken economy.
     
    #65     Aug 17, 2012
  6. I've been saying this for years. Not necessarily the "balance the budget" aspect; that's like believing in unicorns. On the other hand, a reduced cost of living would go a long way's towards re-building this country. Industries COULD become competitive again at reduced wages IF the cost of living adjusts towards the naturally lower level of economic activity.

    Yes, the critics will point to all of the defaults said adjustment would cause...well, we've already been experiencing massive losses, banks hiding bad assets for years IN SPITE of BB going on his ZIRP inspired asset reflationary gamut. We've added trillions in debt to keep the economy at stall speed.

    Even under the utopian solutions of Krugman, we eventually hit the brick wall. All it does is shift it forward another few years and add trillions more debt that would never be honored.
     
    #66     Aug 17, 2012
  7. Mav88

    Mav88

    But who should be 'allowed' money, the people who work or those who do nothing? If they get hungry enough they will work.

    It's also pretty basic economics that if the government does that every single year, borrowing costs will eventually force the government to print money and impoverish everyone.
     
    #67     Aug 17, 2012
  8. Ricter

    Ricter

    Yeah, they "work" all right. Look to history, and to recent events, to see the "work" that hungry people do.
     
    #68     Aug 17, 2012
  9. rew

    rew

    Money is cheap (i.e., yields are low) because when nobody else wants to buy a Treasury bond the Federal Reserve does, with money created out of thin air. There is no real market price of U.S bonds. Me, I think you'd have to be crazy to lend to the U.S. government at current rates.
     
    #69     Aug 17, 2012
  10. Ricter

    Ricter

    Their creating money out of thin air has about the same net effect that the finance sector's money creation, through collateral chains, has, i.e. not much, because spenders are not getting their hands on it. Hence, no inflation.

    You are correct, but formerly, not now, about the demand for U.S. debt:

    "Guess Who's Buying All the Bonds? (It's Not the Fed)"
    Published: Friday, 8 Jun 2012 | 2:09 PM ET
    By: Jeff Cox
    CNBC.com Senior Writer
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47738555

    And, "Who Else Is Buying U.S. Treasuries?"
    By James Bianco - June 14th, 2012, 8:30AM
    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/06/who-else-is-buying-u-s-treasuries/
     
    #70     Aug 17, 2012