'The debate rages' well, continues. EW is NOT a trading method. EW is a theory of Price Movement. With the emphasis on 'analysis' â technical, EW provides a means of analyzing price movement, albeit a very subjective and interpretive means. One 'needs' to understand wave/price movement in order to apply the fibonacci price levels tool effectively, and time tool if available, again, tools of analysis. Trading methods/strategies are a completely different kettle of fish. The Advanced Get developer Tom Joseph built "... a simple model using the other 35% of Elliott Wave Analysis that is very clear". It's interesting that aside from the 'Wave Four Channels' which are part of the EW label tool, Joseph doesn't use the fibo price tool in his model. For me the fibo price levels tool is the veritable goose that lays golden eggs by accurately projecting Highs, Lows, Corrections, Retracements time and time and time again. Joseph's model "A Mechanical Trading System" pdf.
Nice brochure. Adding an oscillator is especially neat. Another person who made his own software uses stochrsi. Both methods leave out a variable, however. Too bad.
Kastro, you have been here much longer than most of us. So you have seen the ebb and flow of the ET. This thread is a real eye opener in just a few pages. nonsense thunder and cluseau make an assortment of points that can lead you to a viewpoint. Collectively, they point out, by inference, that a comprehensive viewpoint is required. Illiquid makes another observation about "knowing markets". Then loads of books are mentioned as well; there is knowledge all about it seems. icarus binds together the thought of "sufficiency" for the trader to make money. This weaves for you a possible answer that will serve you well. For no particularly thoughtful reason, I have been involved with T/A most of my life. I was just exposed to the idea that making money was easy in the markets and grinding away over time, you get far beyond most other methods of having wealth. It turns out to be true according to those who did it and do it. Start by viewing the market as a system. Secondly, use an orientation to this system as one that has a structure, a process going on within and without it, and that the process produces results. Use infomation to characterize all of this. The structure of the markets varies and each sort of market performs according to its rules and setting and participants. In any event, the key variables of the market are there to provide the descriptive nature of the processes going on. Historically, fortunately, the owners and operators of markets chose to come up with descriptors of their market's operations. T/A was invented then and there. So the system is defined by its structure, process, and results produced. To use T/A to make money from this system, you only need to use a sufficient amount of stuff from all that is available as icarus informs us. By looking everything over completely as illiquid suggests and knowing it down cold, then we can back off and just do what is necessary to make money. You suggest that you have gotten so far. Nonsense has found out that there are some people who know T/A profoundly and they are "douers" in illiquid's parlance of "knowing the markets". There is a way to approach this and have a lot of deep and abiding breakthroughs. There are two aspects to deal with: yourself, personnally and the subject of the system:T/A of markets. T/A has many facets and the inventors of these have given names to some facets and all the other aspects have important characteristics and they are given to you by the market. We want to make this differentiation and keep it is mind. Making use of all that T/A offers goes through many levels and , here in the thread, it has been made clear that the generic is only so helpful. That is true and it also tells you that the generic is not where effectiveness and efficiency of making money lays. The direct market characterisitcs is where to focus and the invented T/A stuff is ancillary for you. The process to complete is suffusing yourself with T/A in a few stages of increasing depth. This is where knowledge is at first acquired and then there is an acquisition of skills. Someone commented that after a point you are on your own in the "learning" process. Well, this is much more than learning. T/A knowledge is piled up in your brain as a process that then affords you a person structure of information that is valuable. As you learn to learn what is true and what is chaff, you get to be skilled enough to be descriminating. Often descrimination is destroyed repeatedly by failure and what is learned as knowledge is a sophisticated set of stuff about how to fail. This must be sidestepped as often as possible. Your consciousness is the watchdog for all of this. Externally there is another fine mechanism to use as well. T/A that is good, works all around. It works on all fractal levels of the market. We are limited by the simplicity of the market monitoring so we have to just put up with that. we are also limited by our sensory powers. Neither is a problem, though. So you are building a mind capable of handling all the market has to give you. The developed mind can handle all of the structure, processes and getting results. It is most easily built on T/A because you find that T/A is very descriptive and forms what is known as "knowing markets". Because there are so many ways to make money in markets, there is a plethora of theories on that. The purpose of knowing T/A clod is to always be able to extract te potential of the market no matter what is going on. You equip your mind by building to do that. You build a mental T/A system in your mind and skillfully tap it as required. Here is a possible overview of the T/A scope and bounds. One relationship drives the variables of the market. You use a repeated monitoring process to take appropriate pictures of the market. You analyze the pcitures (you make in real time) much more quickly than the pictures change. The analysis is based upon "knowing the market" in T/A terms. Do do these two things, is only possible if you get the answers to your original post. That comes from one thing. It is setting up your monitoring process in order to be able to look at anything necessary anytime you wish. This is where most people screw themselves to the wall unbearably. As an engineer type person, I do the ordinary. I look at only what is requred at the time but i have everything that is statistically significant available to glance at. Once you see the fundamental relationship of the market variables operating consistently on any of all the levels available, then you see how to choose the operating point of the market vis a vis making money effectively and efficiently. T/A is a market thing and not an edge thing, in other words. The market is delivering money continually and the variables tell you about that. There is a pace and velocity at all times and you can always observe it. T/A deals with the market operation directly and comprehensively. You build in your mind the system to process your observations. The system is build in your mind by purposeful observation of the statisitically significant set of market variables of which there are two and possibly three.
it could be, how many thoughts one can cram into a single paragraph.. Is that an indicator? or how many paragraphs one uses? i don't smoke, so i, don't, use, many, commas, or paragraphs... alex
I agree..an 80 pager would be a good way to describe any given person's approach. Need to have the variables understood though.
The rationale for price only is very prevelant and even "popular". For those who have made a thorough analytical effort to determine their price only approach, they can usually come up with a list of additional unmet needs they want to implement. Lets say they have about 7 to 10 that they recognize as enhancements that will give a significant benefit. Where do they turn? a. Stay in price only measures? b. Look at price indicators? c. Add a couple of variables? Consider: 1. The most salient improvements on price only are those that allow the person to enter and be "pushed" by price. 2. The second group of improvements to price only relate to "holding throughout the whole price movement that is being monitored instead of exiting early. 3. The third group of improvements to price only relate to being able to link prior trades to current trades. That is, the end of one trade serves as an entry to the next. People who do not use price only don't dwell in crossing sets a, b, c and 1, 2, 3. They deal in iterative refinements in additional arenas because after handling 1, 2, and 3 there are other fish to fry at each range of money velocities (profit accumulation). So the T/A orientation usually drives traders to a more profitable approach than just a price only T/A approach. Obviously the key ingredient is that by adding other variables and their indicators there will be an extension of performance.
In the final analysis, each trader must decide for himself what will work best for him as the result of personal research and assessment. Therefore, perhaps the fellow who asked would best be served not by our individual (and biased) opinions, but by a presentation of materials he may wish to cover in order to arrive at his own conclusions. To that end, I suggested 4 books earlier in this thread that he may wish to have a look at to get a good feel for what is out there. Although hardly exhaustive, it is likely to be far more than most people need in order to get started on finding their own way, insofar as understanding T/A and subsequently developing a trading strategy is concerned. Areas of interest only touched on in these books that spark an interest can then be explored further at the reader's discretion with a combination of primary and secondary research. And so, my work here is done.
It is my view that the initiator is going through a transition that is best described as moving from one plateau to another. Since he has been in ET for several years, my view (biased, of course) is that he is energized to scramble up to a higher level from a fairly sound base. Sparking any interest to support that effort could come from the formal route you advocate but, pragmatically speaking, a person probably could move to another level in a better way by interacting with those who reside in an assortment of different places along the path. It has been made clear to me over and over that my particular bias and subsequent views are not very appropriate for the final analysis stuff for most people. The mainstream of formal discourse on the subject or any subject can be an intellectual stimulus but on the other hand, any field is advanced as a consequence of penetrating the fronts on which efforts are being made. I don't think primary and secondary research is where a person grows to get to the top of trading. I think it comes from pragmatic discourse on trading the markets in the context illiquid espouses. It is more a fact of dealing "where the rubber meets the road". The road is built to convey the market. It is done according to getting the market job done. The vehicles do change as the technology becomes available to ambulate. T/A is a vehicle and it changes according to the progress made over time. Formal editions come out all the time. One group in recent years, was the linux financial group out of Paris. The almost daily interactions there where programmers welded relationships with traders who were suggesting specifications were on a terrific level, plateauxwise. For any trader to feel his rubber meeting the road; it comes from a dynamic of being on the road (in the marketplace and not anywhere else) and knowing the capability of his vehicle (his mental development via knowledge, skills and tools). There is no question that any traveler is continually shoppping regarding vehicles. At various times in our lives we have preferences. We make efforts and dedicate resouces to obtain the appropriate vehicle. I, for example, espouse rockets ONLY for beginners. Get on down that road NOW!!!!