https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously. Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry. With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID. By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave. According to a report by Channel 13, the disparity has confounded – and divided – Health Ministry experts, with some saying the data proves the higher level of immunity provided by natural infection versus vaccination, while others remained unconvinced.
Let's see what people in the U.S. think of the J&J COVID vaccine... ‘I feel like I’m half vaccinated’: Some Illinois residents who got Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines are seeking booster shots as delta variant spreads https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0210715-ydvb6gkykfgtxmsspqs2ox5afq-story.html
People are doing a lot of home-grown speculation about which vaccine is more effective in testing and then which one is or is not or should be against the delta. But I don't blame them much. The system or the "science" purposely or negligently does not provide the data they need to make good decisions. Possibly even some protecting of "preferred" vaccines by making sure that they do not get examined too closely. For example and most noteworthy is the accepted "fact" that j and j is less effective which is repeated like a mantra. We don't know that. We know that J and J was the first to run tests that included the South Africa variant but Pfizer and Moderna did their testing before the South African variant and some others came along. If they had included those variants, their results may or may not be better than J and J and if J and J tests for two doses, their results may or may not be better than two doses of the other. Of course Moderna - the preferred vaccine by the administration- might take a hit if it turns out that it is no better so that kind of testing conveniently goes undone. Yeh, they report that they looked at it and their vaccine still looks groovy, but not real testing. So never having resolved that issue, we then move on to speculation about which one is and is more effective against the delta. The administration wants us to follow the science. Okay fine, could I see some please.
Keep in mind that both Pfizer and Moderna have been tested in wide-scale studies against variants since their initial release. Both shots have reams of data about their effectiveness against variants at this point.
I don't know that. They do full scale that they submitted to the fda. Then since then they say they looked at this and that and it's all good but not full trials at the same level as the original submission. Also we are still waiting on the data from 2 shot j and j. I won't go over that again but maybe people are just as well or better off with a second dose of j and j. Don't know yet.
Keep in mind that for Pfizer the entire country of Israel is basically an investigation laboratory to carry out studies which include many more participants than the Phase 3 trails. Here is the information regarding Pfizer and the Delta variant. How Well Does The Pfizer Vaccine Protect Against The Delta Variant? Here’s What We Know https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...a-variant-heres-what-we-know/?sh=17aa414aff33 Topline Data from Israel’s health ministry shows Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine significantly less effective at preventing infection and symptomatic illness with the Delta variant than with previous strains of coronavirus, conflicting with existing research that suggests strong protection against the variant—and here’s what might explain the discrepancy. A full course of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 64% effective at preventing infection and 64% at preventing symptomatic Covid-19 caused by the Delta variant, according to preliminary findings from a study by Israel’s health ministry. The findings conflict with a number of other studies assessing the vaccine’s performance against the variant, which indicate a much higher degree of protection against infection and mild illness (between 80% and 90%). Since the researchers have not released the full data from the Israel study, it is difficult to fully assess the findings, Dr. Deepti Gurdasani, an epidemiologist at Queen Mary University in London, told Forbes. But one potential explanation for the discrepancy is that the Israel data is just “the best we’ve got,” Dr. David Strain, a senior clinical lecturer at the University of Exeter, told Forbes, pointing to Israel’s high proportion of fully vaccinated people, mature vaccination program and high prevalence of the Delta variant. The discrepancy could also be explained by flaws in how the Israeli study was conducted, Harvard Medical School Professor Rebecca Weintraub told Forbes, meaning the higher number of cases among vaccinated people could be caused by something other than the vaccine being less effective. The study did not take the steps needed to rule out these alternate explanations—such as Israel’s surveillance program potentially picking up more cases than other studies due to most people in the highly vaccinated country only getting tested after contact with a positive case—Weintraub said, making it hard to conclude the vaccine is less effective. Big Number 93%. That’s how effective the Pfizer vaccine is at preventing serious illness and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant after two doses, according to the Israeli study. This is only slightly lower than against other variants. “When you look at it, that means the vaccine is doing its job really well,” Strain said, given this is the key purpose of a vaccine. The “downside,” however, is that we may start seeing the virus spreading again. Chief Critic “I am afraid that the current Israeli [ministry of health] analysis cannot be used to safely assess it, one way or another,” tweeted Uri Shalit, a senior lecturer at the Technion–Israel Institute of Technology, pointing to numerous confounding variables the study did not account for that could explain the results. The study did not, for example, consider the potential differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated people, Shalit said, who might differ in their willingness to get tested for Covid-19 or adherence to public health guidance like social distancing or mask wearing. Weintraub, who is also a professor of medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, told Forbes she agrees with this assessment, though stressed that other studies indicate the vaccine is “still highly effective” and “reinforce the importance of the second dose to fend off the Delta variant.” Key Background The infectious Delta variant has driven up new waves of Covid-19 in countries around the world, including highly vaccinated ones that had already managed to control the virus. Many—including parts of Europe, Israel and Australia—are reinstating restrictions and lockdowns to contain outbreaks, while others, notably the U.K., are preparing to just “live with the virus” (a strategy many scientists have branded as dangerous and woefully misguided). Over the course of around two months, the variant has gone from accounting for practically no U.S. cases to being the country’s dominant strain, making up as many as 80% of cases in some areas. Given the country’s uneven vaccine coverage, experts are worried Delta could undermine American efforts to manage the virus, especially with practically no pandemic restrictions left in place. What To Watch For Given the variant’s resistance to vaccines and high transmissibility, the potential use of booster shots to top up waning immunity has become a contentious topic among experts, officials and pharmaceutical companies. Pfizer, citing evidence of waning immunity, is pushing regulators to approve its booster shot (Israel’s regulator recently approved it for immunocompromised individuals). U.S. regulators rejected this approach and said fully vaccinated Americans “do not need a booster shot at this time.” World Health Organization head Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said there was not enough evidence to support a third shot at this time. Tedros criticized the “greed” he said was driving the pharmaceutical companies lobbying for booster shots, who are doing so instead of protecting people who have yet to be vaccinated at all.
Well the issue is not completely just about whether the delta is worse, it is about the speculation of whether one vaccine is or is not as effective against it regardless of whether it is or is not more contagious. Some of that is shaky for all the reasons I mentioned. When the South African variant came along Moderna and Pfizer said "we looked at it and we are looking good and we got antibodies, etc. etc." Whereas Johnson had it in the data for the original trial study. Not as convinced as you are that we ever saw head to head between the vaccines on all current viruses or even the south african. I like to see some science and you are saying that Israel has some. That's fine. Some American would be nice too. But stay away from Moderna is the way the game is played when fauci puts his Moderna tee shirt you know things are looking good for them. Alright. Enough of that.
BioNTech Shot Produces 10 Times More Antibodies Than Sinovac, Study Finds https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...duces-10-times-sinovac-antibodies-study-finds There is a substantial gap in the amount of antibodies that mRNA and inactivated vaccines can generate against the virus that causes Covid-19, according to a Hong Kong study, in the latest finding on what may have contributed to the varied outcomes following mass vaccination using different types of shots. The research, published in The Lancet on Thursday, found that antibody levels among Hong Kong health workers who have been fully vaccinated with BioNTech SE‘s mRNA shot are about 10 times higher than those observed in the recipients of the inactivated vaccine from Sinovac Biotech Ltd. While disease-fighting antibodies don’t account for the full picture when it comes to measuring the ability to generate immunity and the effectiveness of Covid vaccines, “the difference in concentrations of neutralizing antibodies identified in our study could translate into substantial differences in vaccine effectiveness,” the researchers said. The finding adds to a growing body of evidence suggesting the superiority of mRNA vaccines in providing potent and comprehensive protection against Sars-CoV-2 and its variants, compared to vaccines developed by more traditional methods such as inactivated shots. Countries from Israel to the U.S that have relied mostly on mRNA vaccines from Pfizer Inc. and its German partner BioNTech, as well as Moderna Inc., have seen a marked reduction in infections. Those using mostly inactivated shots from China’s Sinovac and Sinopharm haven’t experienced as much of a dent in case numbers, though the use of both kinds has significantly prevented more severe Covid and fatalities. The lower effectiveness of inactivated vaccines has prompted countries from Thailand to the United Arab Emirates to offer already fully vaccinated people another booster shot as the more infectious delta variant fuels a resurgence in infections. The Hong Kong study also suggested that future research could look into how booster shots can shore up antibody levels and protection among people vaccinated with inactivated shots.
I saw that earlier and saw that it came out of the University of Hong Kong. And then I thought: Somebody at the university going to be getting a visit from the Chinese overlords mighty soon.
What is the biodistribution of these vaccines? Why is there heart inflammation in some people? Are the vaccines being distributed throughout the body via the cardiovascular system and not staying locally in the arm? Is that why there is heart inflammation? Is the vaccine making its way the heart, arteries, veins, and capillaries cells and then those cells are producing spike proteins therefore the immune system is attacking those cells? Do the vaccines make their way to brain cells? Those are genuine questions. ADD: I just tried to research it myself. According to to a blog I just read, there are no biodistribution studies of mRNA vaccines by Pfizer, Moderna, or JNJ that can be found on the internet. WFT!!!?? That can't be true. I will tell you this right now. THERE IS NOT FUCKING WAY THAT I AM TAKING ANY OF THOSE VACCINES UNTIL A SEE A BIODISTRIBUTION STUDY THAT I DETERMINE, BELIEVE, AND TRUST IS A GOOD STUDY.