With a salary thats 10x the average worker in the US why would you even consider to daytrade, if anything buy quality stocks and put them away for the long term. Buy high dividend stocks and just reinvest the dividends...there are daytraders out there who probably make a comfortable living but don't even come close your salary, so stop wasting your time thinking about daytrading and just work your high six figure job and be happy ...
A person who considers trading as a livelihood, especially daytrading needs consider the following. The market is like doing business or having a soulmate who has major mood swings, euphoria, depression, unpredictablity. Can you imagine being a customer or supplier or room mate to a person like this, needing to live with someone like this? Manic depressive, bipolar. So while the trader themselves attempts to live in a world which is logical sequential, keeping a structure in their decisions, the market which is both opponent and ally, is twisting and turning and testing your sanity while attempting to rob your bank account by pretending to be friend. Anyone who thinks they can easily master an idiot (market) needs to think very carefully prior to stepping inside the asylum.
Thank you so much for the incredible input and perspective. I would lie if I said I didn’t find the answers slightly depressing - but mostly definitely accurate. I definitely realised how difficult the learning process was from a time and intellectual control standpoint, but I never really factored the physical one of sitting at a desk for 10hours. I had also always assumed that because this wouldn’t be something I do to generate a living income, the “pressure” to deliver wouldn’t play on my nerves. I might still be wrong. I am sure some of you will see this lack of financial incentives to succeed as a cause for not being able to make this work / make me take this seriously. It could well sound like a pipe dream to some, and it might well be, but because it’s been a part of my life for the past 20+ years (and more if you factor in the fact that I studied finance at uni) - it is something I need to do and experience. I want to get “plugged in” the market pulse and feel closer toit than I feel managing my semi passive investment portfolio. I am clearly not able or willing to spend 10hours a day sitting at a desk - as the whole point of leaving my day job eventually is to spend more time with my family. However, I have a 2-3 more years before I quit my job, and am hoping to be able to test my trading system over this time and turn it into something that gives me a 40%+ win rate, and let 2-2.5 R&R ratio generate a small profit. What your answers really made me reconsider is whether I need to invest 100k at all - as I like imjohn’s suggestion to grow my 10k into 100k overtime - regardless how long it takes (esp if I put in “hobby” hours or trade like peter2h) If I cannot do this overtime, with the hours I can allocate to DT, I will have my answer as to whether I am cut for it. Finally as to whether this post is pure troll - well I guess I do not have a way or even desire to prove myself. It might be impossible for some to conceptualise how one would give up on a somewhat guaranteed income of 600k+... I guess I am of the people that value my time on this planet more than money, and prefer to spend it with my wife, kids, F&F while doing things I love (trading being one of those many things). I suppose it’s something you can only appreciate once you’re financial independent and if you’re not driven by money. “How much does one need to be comfortable and happy” sort of thing. I really thank all of you people who have taken some of your time to share your experience, and will probably be reaching out to you via pm for more specific questions. Enjoy the rest of the festive seasons. Cheers!
ok, one more piece of advice in trading. get educated from a profitable trader (proven track record) and throw out everything you learn about finance in college or fundamental investing. trading is all about t/a. put in the screen time, keep a trading journal, find what works for you. and start small and do this for at least a year. let us know how it goes same time next year and see if you still want to day trade as part of your "retirement."
Each man is different, but too much time with the wife and kids and I am ready to jump off a bridge. I have tremendous love for them but after six months working from home I am starting to miss showing up at an office each day. Also, most people in your shoes would be thinking in terms of wealth generation rather than trading for income. Seems like you might be able to satisfy your love for the markets with focusing on longer time frames.
I understand where you coming from in terms of spending 24/7 w wife and kids. However they will be at school 7h a day - so we’re really talking time w the wife. I lucked out of this side; common interests, views in life etc... but we also like our independence. This is why I would like to have a few side activities - trading being one of them. Regarding my invested portfolio - my current strategy entails being 80% invested in passive ETFs to replicate the market and 20% on dynamic value investment - still with a long term hold approach. Given that once we pull the retirement trigger, this big nest will put some food on our table, i am happy for it to be as boring as it gets. We will only need a 2.5-3% Safe Withdrawal Rate... it is therefore more about wealth preservation than wealth accumulation per day if that makes any sense
Thank you for the advice. Over the years, I have been using TA as a way to invest, paired with fundamental analysis to manage a small part of my portfolio. Over the past year, I am developed tools such as journals, trading routines, statistical risk management models (I am a finance and xls nerd), psychological checklist have identified 5 signals that could work for me. All it needs at this point is miles and miles of back testing and live testing and start journaling and learning from my mistakes. Some of the off-putting - and very first hand experience posts - are very helpful in making me reflect whether this past time can even work given the amount of time I have to allocate to it over the next 10years... However, you don’t have to be tiger wood to be enjoying the game of golf - even if it costs you a little bit to buy clubs and green fees without wanting to compare both trades or even saying that trading is a game of course, far from it. I want to be a good student and am just wondering whether doing a “part time degree” can eventually lead to becoming decent at it, without any expectations to ever make a living from it
Enjoy life...live off your investment portfolio...do a ton of traveling and start new hobbies. Daytrading not needed...its not something you do as a hobby nor when you're bored unless your real goal is to lose 100k while laughing all the way down to the last dollar. wrbtrader
The one big positive, trading is interesting for those who live the game. It involves finance, politics, psychology, risk, reward, adrenelin, constant anticipation, planning, discipline, constant education, hard work etc. They say successful trading is boring, that's true, once a system is running, letting it run its course is boring, but in the meantime climbing a higher peak to find another holy grail becomes addictive. Maybe that last bit might be a big mistake we make.
Im sure there are 10 hour traders. But this is not my experience. I traded the vast majority of the 251 trading days in 2019. There was not a single day this year I traded for more than 5.5 hours. A typical day, Im sitting at a desk for maybe 2-3 hours, or perhaps laying on the couch with computer in lap, or laying on my side, or at a standing desk. Personally, I'm able to focus in all of these physical positions. The strategy I trade averages 5 signals a day. I can easily see the choppy periods, and at this time, I do not trade. I set some alerts for price levels which I think indicate the choppy period is over. In the meantime, I do something else around the house. Once I enter a trade, I have a fixed target/stop and there is nothing to do in that time but wait. The computer will tell me when one of those exits is reached, at which point I get back to trading. In the meantime, again, I'm free to move about or do anything else I want. Call family/friends, read something, enjoy some food, stretch, take a nap. I also usually have foreign language audio playing in the background, as I try to develop this skill when trading is slower. So all of the hours have some value to me. Moreover, while the early part of the US trading session is quite active, the afternoons are typically slower and yield less signals. I could turn a profit if I only traded the first 2-3 hours a day. However, I ENJOY trading, and I don't feel the latter half of day is a burden to me or that it erodes profits. If some days I don't feel like trading, then I do something else. Certainly there are many, many times I spent 10+ hours sitting, but that was outside of my core trading hours, when I was analyzing countless charts, looking for recurring signals, and beating them into my brain. The learning process / "getting there", is brutal and will require a lot of hours and likely multiple years. Yet it's a mental challenge and will sharpen your mind. I never found it to be sleep inducing, or mind numbing. But that's just me. Prior to leaving my profession to take up trading, I worked in a heavy analytical field for a decade. There were many days early in my career where I spent 10+ hours sitting at a desk and doing mind numbing work. Searching for needles in giant haystacks of data. I would often sneak away to the bathroom or my car, and take naps. If I did that at my desk, I would no doubt be reprimanded. As I climbed the ranks, my role switched to overseeing others. I hated this as well, managing the personalities and conflicts and work ethics amongst those below me, while simultaneously dealing with the bullshit from those above me. I was making a solid income and living very comfortably. Still, I dreaded Mondays, I hated the endless meetings, playing the office politics, and feigning enthusiasm for a job I truly despised. Here is a quote that has always resonated with me: "If a man makes two-thirds of his existence subservient to one-third, for which admittedly he has no absolutely feverish zest, how can he hope to live fully and completely? He Cannot."