Larry Williams

marketsurfer · May 9, 2004

Quote from Vishnu:

Not to mention his daughter Michelle is an extreme cutie. Not just in Dawson's Creek but I really liked her in The Station Agent.
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agree

007Arb · May 9, 2004

Larry Williams mentions the Frankie Joe's suicide in not only Day Trade Futures Online but also Long Term Secrets to Short Term Trading. However, nowhere did he say Frankie Joe commited suicide in 1983 - nowhere. What he said was that from 1960 to 1983 that Frankie Joe was a truly great trader. He then goes on to say that Frankie Joe's style of selling rallies and buying the dips was his undoing because the market kept rallying. Since he died in the early part of 1987, you can only infer he was hurt by the bull of 85, 86, and especially the early part of 87 where the market never looked back. I spoke with one of Mr. Joe's trading partner and basically he said just let Mr. Joe rest in peace. Larry probably regrets bringing up the cause of Mr. Joe's death but I would bet he's sticking to his contention. Give him a call, he is very accessible.

As for the Harriman quote, yes, it does seem Larry made a mistake date-wise.

Baruch · May 10, 2004

Quote from 007Arb:

Larry Williams mentions the Frankie Joe's suicide in not only Day Trade Futures Online but also Long Term Secrets to Short Term Trading. However, nowhere did he say Frankie Joe commited suicide in 1983 - nowhere. What he said was that from 1960 to 1983 that Frankie Joe was a truly great trader. He then goes on to say that Frankie Joe's style of selling rallies and buying the dips was his undoing because the market kept rallying. Since he died in the early part of 1987, you can only infer he was hurt by the bull of 85, 86, and especially the early part of 87 where the market never looked back. I spoke with one of Mr. Joe's trading partner and basically he said just let Mr. Joe rest in peace. Larry probably regrets bringing up the cause of Mr. Joe's death but I would bet he's sticking to his contention. Give him a call, he is very accessible.

As for the Harriman quote, yes, it does seem Larry made a mistake date-wise.
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Yes, Frankie Joe had some big losses in the last years. He said that the bear market before had spoiled him. There was a big interview with him in Barron's before he died. Maybe someone could find this and make a link? In the interview he said that he felt like an old man because of the stress with trading. He traded also futures and bonds.

Baruch · May 10, 2004

Quote from Vishnu:

As full disclosure I have to say I'm biased because Larry wrote a blurb for the back cover of my recent book. That said I never had any interaction with him before that and I don't know him personally.

I do think Larry needs to be given a lot of credit. I have no opinion on his tradnig contests, successes, failures, etc. although he does address many of the questions in his recent book.

However, for anybody who wants ideas to test and then to trade then Larry's books are a great starting point, even the books that are 20 years old. My first system that I traded was the OOPS system, and many of the systems that I trade, or in the books of Connors, Crabel, Rashke, and on and on, are somewhat derivative of Larry's systems.

Not to mention his daughter Michelle is an extreme cutie. Not just in Dawson's Creek but I really liked her in The Station Agent.
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What's the title of your book?

Vishnu · May 10, 2004

Quote from Baruch:

What's the title of your book?
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Trade Like a Hedge Fund

Baruch · May 10, 2004

Quote from Vishnu:

Trade Like a Hedge Fund
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Thanks.

harrytrader · May 10, 2004

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=482947&highlight=hedge+and+fund#post482947

Quote from harrytrader:

I use to say it's different to make a cake at home and to make a cake industry. The cake at home is usually more good. So for me it is not astonishing that an individual trader / little hedge fund manager can do better than a big hedge fund manager because it is not the same scale process. The individual trader / little hedge fund has no liquidity problem relatively. A big hedge fund will have probably have to bluff a market so that at his scale he is a bit like a poker player whereas the individual trader is more like a roulette player because the market is so big compared to him. This is not the case for big hedge funds who are really playing a zero sum game one against the other so that necessarily some have to explode for others to win. At least then the smaller players can then mock them when it happens.
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http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=484371&highlight=drawdown#post484371

Also the drawdown is extremely important. Some people consider that it is not important but I consider that drawdown is part of the risk above all if you use OPM (Others People Money). Now personally I hate to trade with OPM. And I will never confy my money either except to guys I would have formed and tested myself .
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Quote from Vishnu:

Even though this is slightly off topic here and perhaps worthy of another thread: managing other people's money is 1000x more stressful than managing your own money.

People sometimes write me and ask me for my track record as a fund manager so they can compare with their personal track records and see if they are up to snuff. Thats like comparing apples and oranges. If the clients are professionals, then its a pleasure:
a. new friends
b. people to help you build your business
c. no hassles

But the stress of succeeding and failing for others is a lot different from just managing your own money. In most cases, drawdowns are completely unacceptable, style drift is unacceptable, and even huge up moves in the equity curve are unacceptable (if you can make it, you can lose it). I've been fortunate to have some incredible clients but the lifestyle is 100% different than when I was just daytrading my own money. Maybe after I get my first 100M (knock on wood) I can go back to trading my own money.
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harrytrader · May 10, 2004

I intend to create several hedge funds. But I won't manage it myself I will recruit hedge fund managers that I will form. Above all I will focus on drawdown.

I won't create them now because I need to observe this industry more and second because as I said I expect a coming hecatomb of hedge funds: I will wait that the hecatomb pass.

opw · May 10, 2004

Who is this Frankie Joe? I have heard the name many times but a google search shows up nothing....

Who can tell me more...?

Baruch · May 10, 2004

Quote from opw:

Who is this Frankie Joe? I have heard the name many times but a google search shows up nothing....

Who can tell me more...?
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He was a great trader in his time. All oldtimers know him. Ask them. I have taken my motto from Frankie Joe: "Keep it simple, stupid".