Larry Williams Million Dollar Challenge

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by clarodina, Feb 19, 2008.

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  1. ssss

    ssss

    OldTrader
    02-20-08 07:05 PM
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    Quote from ssss:

    From author point of view -to be very carefully ..

    With high chance that is only propaganda , Larry Williams
    won through multiple loss in offset client's accounts .
    Loss by client's accounts was more as win by L.Williams account .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There's a damn good chance that there's more "deception" or "propaganda" in your statements in this thread than there was in Larry Williams trading account.

    ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

    Dear Sir

    1. Author suspect ,that you reseived refferal fees from Larry Williams ... For each statements in this board about Larry Williams .Or from persons related to Larry Williams


    2. Please provide CFTC ,NFA,SEC,Court statement's
    that Larry Willimas have not any offset account's
    in time of contest in 1987 . Not with he's name ,not with name
    he's client's

    From all goverment agencie's

    CFTC,SEC,Court

    If you can not perform that ,than statement of NFA (it was public on ET) is true

    Through this statement Larry Williams trading record
    have not any matter ,is only decpetive statement .
    fine of NFA is true

    3. Through method ,with which you try to defend
    Larry Williams -accusation shift in propaganda and deceptive
    statement from Larry Williams to the author

    exist folloving suspect's

    1. You are payed agent of Larry William's
    2. You are belong to some kind of sectancy ,as example -Scientology .

    Activities of Scientology not forbidden in USA ,but essentialy
    closely monitored /forbidden in Europha.

    From standpoint USA law you can provide this
    kind of "religion" in USA ,but that is forbidden in Europha
    through High Court .

    One of Ground is that Scientology sectancy used "fictional religion " ,VIP's persons in media with ob'jective -to take peoples money's

    Larry Williams person and method propaganda is related
    to ob'jective's to take foreign money -through teaching ,book selling,account management &

    All statement's of the author(ssss) are not direct ,not indirect
    are not related to ob'ejctive to take foreign money.
    Author is individual ,which performed participation in multiple
    paper money (to date) contest's in Europha and USA





    If you have any doubt ,you can complaint by USA court

    Best wish ...
     
    #21     Feb 21, 2008
  2. I started trading in 1995. after receiving some LW literature in the mail. ( I was a little more gullible back then LOL) I think it was the British America set that he was selling back then. Anyways I had mixed results for about a year and a half.In 1997 I heard he had a bond only hotline but that it was limited to a low number of subscribers. Now in my life I have never known that to be true when it come to any hotline etc. So I called and tried to subscribe and much to my surprise (I talked directly to Larry) he said it was closed and that if people cancelled etc. they would open up a few more slots. About 2 months later in the commodity timing newsletter he announced there were a few spots open. I went right from the letter to the phone and was again told that the spots had already been taken. (this time by his secretary I think Jennifer was her name. Off the subject but she was a very nice person with a great sense of humor) So a few weeks later (Sept. 1997) I decide to try again and without any questions Jennifer signed me right up. I was a little surprised and kind of wondered if she made a mistake but that was okay with me! Well between Sept and Dec were 3 months of fantastic trading. I prob have the confirmations slips buried deep in a box somewhere but I remember there being 1 loser right at the start and then there was winner after winner. And big winners not4-6 ticks but more like 1.5 pts (48 ticks). I believe my account did close to 60% in 3 months. Then Larry set up a deal with Robbings in Dec of 1997 that was based off of a very similar but slighty different bond only hotline. You deposited 10K in a Robbins account and they would do all the trades from this second hotline plus his opton expiration trade on a Dow Futures (which had just started trading at the time) A quick funny story there the option expriation trade was based on an bias the Friday before option expiration and and if I remember correctly was simply buy Friday before option expiration at a percentage of Thursday's range added to Friday's open on a stop. Exit using bailout(first profitable opening) there may have been a bond filter but I don't think so. Well since not many people who traded the hotline could afford to hold an SP over the weekend they decided to use the Dow Futures instead. Now the Dow had just started trading maybe only a month or so before and it opened a half hour before the SP and in the beginning this halfhour was VERY thin volume. Well apparently no one at Robbins or Larry thought about this and the first time we did the options expiration trade our buystops to enter got triggered during the halfhour before the SP opened. I don't know how many of us there were but lets say we redefined the defintion of slippage that day. LOL Okay back to the second Robbins bond only hotline. So you paid 150 a month per contract that you traded and you would increase or decrease using Larry's money management technique. I still remember that Dec. I had the two accounts going and money was rolling in, I was only 19 so you can imagine my state of mind and feeling of invincibility. ahh the memories. So in Jan. or early Feb I am trading 2 bonds contracts in each account and the wheels fell off the choo choo train. By April all profits were gone and then some. A good lesson. I guess. That's the thing with Larry He has monster years every 10 years or so (73 87 97 04) which generates publicity etc. but then he goes into a drought for 3-4 years. Hard to follow and make money.

    Regarding the MDC video I can't speak to what is on it and how good it is as I have not seen it. I did however attend the Nov 2001 MDC in person. We got a lot of information and alot of SP pattern trades. Unfortunately other than OOPS which I believe is still holding up I found most of the pattern trades to be a product of over optimization. He would optimize 5-7 variables DayofWeek Bond Market overall market trend as well as chart formation. So you end with a signal like this, "bonds >bonds 6 days ago and it is not a tuesday and 2 days ago was an inside day in the SP and yesterday was an outside day with a down close and today's open is less than yesterday's high then buy today at .3 of yesterday's range added to today's open on a stop." Everyone on those variables would have been optimized and if you changed 1 or 2 by just a little the pattern would often break down. So to the surprise of no one well I take that back actually I was surprised when the didn't work LOL like I said was a little more gullible back in those days. At the time Larry used 26 pt stops for pattern trades . I remember one of the first trades I did ( i had to do them on the mini as I couldn't afford 26 big SP pts.) I got stopped out to the TICK. Still remeber the feeling. Okay back to the seminar, we also got a few SP day trading techniques (his 4 minute breakout, triple trend, 3 steps up, trade no one wants etc.) There seemed to be alot of good information there but I was never able to make money using it. Although apparently some people did very well esp. on the 4 min breakout and to a lesser extent triple trend. Sorry for this turning into a book brought back alot of memories.
    PS I don't harbour any regrets about all these experiences. I learned alot from Larry about the markets , money management and always using stops. I was a complete novice when I started and his emphasis on those principles have stayed with me to this day and I am sure have stopped me from being blown out.
     
    #22     Feb 21, 2008
  3. Oh, the irony.
     
    #23     Feb 21, 2008
  4. There is no denying the bias. The only dispute is with whom it resides.
     
    #24     Feb 21, 2008

  5. truth is, tdog, i felt LW was a scam from the start, also.

    however, research and personal experience combined have led me to change my views on him. i now am convinced that he is a legit guy and has lots to offer the trading community. like him or hate him matters little to me, just realize that you are the one with the bias and apparent agenda.

    surf
     
    #25     Feb 21, 2008

  6. That was my personal experience as well
     
    #26     Feb 21, 2008
  7. I made an error:
    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...ost+carefully+and+in+its+entirety#post1007920

    OldTrader, you are correct. In fact, I have no factual basis on which to conclude that Larry’s own accounts and those that he managed were not segregated. I apologize for this error. In fact, what I should have written is what William Gallacher had written on page 39 of his book, Winner Take All. And I quote:

    ”…Commodity Trading Advisors (CTAs) registered with the NFA are obliged to disclose their actual trading records to the NFA when soliciting public funds through promotions. A large part of the NFA’s Complaint had to do with whether Williams ought to segregate the results of his personal trading from the results of the accounts he was handling for others…”

    So, it was the results that were not segregated, and not the accounts themselves. My mistake. And it was this misleading advertising that led to the paltry fines that both Robbins Trading Company and Larry Williams paid. Further, this deceptive advertising led the NFA to make the following statement in its Findings and Conclusions as a matter of record:

    ”There is no question that Mr. Williams's personal trading accounts had a material effect upon his composite trading performance. The record reflects that for the first quarter of 1987, Mr. Williams's composite performance showed a loss of $6,122,281, while at the same time Mr. Williams's personal accounts experienced a gain of $902,599. The Panel finds that the fact Mr. Williams was making significant gains while managed customer accounts were suffering considerable losses would be a material fact which a potential customer would need to know in order to make a fully reasoned decision.”

    In the circumstances, I suppose it was the best that the NFA could legally do to warn potential investors of whom they were dealing with.

    Even so, and strictly for hypothetical purposes (of course), please bear in mind that the type of unscrupulous conduct I described as a result of the relative time stamp laxity at the time, could still have easily been perpetrated by those with an inclination to do so. In fact, hypothetically speaking, the poor results in the client accounts and the simultaneous outstanding results in his own personal account were not separate phenomena. Hypothetically speaking, they were the essential two sides of the same equation. Hypothetically, of course.
     
    #27     Feb 21, 2008
  8. I know. Also, the truth is that you seem to grow enamored of just about everyone with whom you meet who has any kind of notoriety or celebrity going. Please don't deny it, surf. You know it to be true.

    Since you speak so well of him and what he does, which is to write books and give seminars based on a reputation surrounding a single event that occurred over 20 years ago under questionable circumstances, answer me this: Which courses of his have you attented? Which methods do you employ in either his books or courses that you either bought or were given? Be specific since, after all, his methods can hardly be regarded as secret, regardless of what his book titles may suggest. What does he teach that is not absolutely generic and readily available just about anywhere else even at the time that he first wrote about them? What justifies the thousands that he charges for his seminars? How is he not a hack on the make? As I see it, this guy is nothing but a "me too" marketer, latching on to whatever captures the fancy of the day.
     
    #28     Feb 21, 2008
  9. As I understand it, you are accusing me of:

    1. Receiving referral fees from Larry Williams for my posts on this board.

    2. I'm a paid agent of Larry Williams

    3. I belong to a sect such as Scientology.

    And, if I understood the very poor English in which you wrote, if I don't like any of the accusation, I can file a lawsuit.

    Is that about it?

    Frankly sir, your post really doesn't deserve a response. But just a brief comment. The only thing Larry Williams was charged with was not properly disclosing his entire track record in his advertisements. That is, as I understand it, he only published his personal trading record, and did not present his record in managing pool money. he was fined if I recollect about $13,000.

    Now, I have my difficulty in understanding your extremely poor English. So what I can't tell is whether you are charging Williams with something beyond this or not. But there is nothing else. Williams is only charged with failure to disclose his entire trading record. The NFA and CFTC do not issue letters stating what Williams is NOT charged with.

    Your rather wild accusations about me shed alot of light on the type of evidence you find necessary and appropriate to make such charges, both about me and about Williams. The evidence you have regarding any of your charges about me is my posts here in this thread. And that I dare say is unbelievably flimsy. Hopefully your limited English will enable you to understand when I tell you that based on your post quoted above I think you sir are a complete nutjob.

    OldTrader
     
    #29     Feb 21, 2008
  10. Thanks for that acknowledgment. I respect your willingness to correct the record, and the integrity that it took.

    OldTrader
     
    #30     Feb 21, 2008
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