large study finds that (hydroxy)chloroquine killing more than it "cures"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by destriero, May 22, 2020.

  1. destriero


  2. Bugenhagen


    Unfortunate but logical, when elderly someone has a 104F temperature for an extended period, adding heart arrhythmia to the mix can't be a good thing.

    Whatever little effect zinc etc. may be having on virus replication, it is grossly outweighed in a significant percentage of cases.

    "Additionally, the study found serious cardiac arrhythmias were more common among patients who received any of the four treatments. The largest increase was among the group treated with hydroxychloroquine and an an antibiotic -- 8% of those patients developed a heart arrythmia, compared to 0.3% of the control group.
    More than 1.5 million people in the United States have tested positive for coronavirus and nearly 95,000 have died, according to Johns Hopkins University."
  3. Here4money


    Inb4 "I never knew hydroxychloroquine, she was just the coffee girl"
  4. IF anything keeps one off a damn ventilator that is a good thing. I read that 88% of people who end up on a ventilator die.
    smallfil likes this.
  5. As I understand the article this drug when administered has the potential to introduce paroxysmal arrhythmia. Having to deal with Afib myself I can see how this is problematic in this situation. A sudden arrhythmia occuring is very disturbing mentally, especially if symptoms are severe, and/or you've never experienced it before.You quite literally feel like you're about to fall over and die. Shortness of breath is common as is feeling dizzy. You can feel your heart racing, then slowing way down, only to ramp up again and again. Someone who has never experienced this, as would be expected among most of these patients is going to panic. Even if you have experienced it multiple times as I have it takes some time to calm the fuck down, talk yourself down, relax and wait for it to pass, which may take hours or days.The anxiety from the arrhythmia causes a type of cascading effect which makes the arrhythmia worse. If you're having trouble breathing to begin with, half out of your mind with fever, weakened from being sick, this additional stress is the last straw. As I have said before, Trump needs to get out of the brainstorming thinking out loud business. This treatment may or may not be the right thing to employ and should be left to the doctors on the scene who can evaluate case by case as appropriate or not. It likely has more risk than not as a preventive measure. I'm all for last ditch cast caution to the wind efforts when everything else has been exhausted, but this should be addressed in privacy between doctor and patient with their decisions kept confidential.
  6. Corto


    Those pills need some preconditioning and they will make wonders: soak them overnight in lysol and let them dry in full sun next day.
  7. Bugenhagen


    I have also experienced heart flutter and along with a feeling of pressure in the head, slight nausea, mental fogginess plus the general anxiety caused by the feeling your heart is trying to twist/lurch sideways every now and again... I would NOT like to get that when severely ill. It would be bad.

    I got my stents recently (being too near a couple of big explosions over 20 years ago caused arterial scarring) and upped my potassium a lot, all good now.

    I have noticed one thing, I have taken two HCLs (one 200mg a week) to see if it helps with my bullet-magnet knee which is a little arthritic. It does, really quite well but I have a pulse-oxymeter finger gadget and noticed the day after taking it my heard rate was 64 BPM and its normally around 40-45 resting (I'm very large/fit).. this was at night over 12 hours since my last coffee. Testing when I work up today before coffee, still high.

    Not an uncommon side effect of many medications tachycardia but again, not necessarily ideal (I'm still under 50). We know for certain there is a black market in these drugs in the US and people trying to save on doctors fees. It is not an ideal drug as a placebo for healthy people, pity Trump did not say take one paracetamol/acetaminophen (Tylenol)* a day.

    *Odd thing about acetaminophen, through my hospice work I have seen time after time the same advice from nurses, as soon as you start to feel ill with a cold/flu, take acetaminophen/Tylenol and go to bed early, it will usually ward it off. I have done this for years and noticed recently my pill hating wife started copying me as she said it works for her. Not recommending for Covid-19 :) but just mentioning as its very popular prophylactic with nurses and doctors.
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  8. I use tylenol in the same way upon the advice from my wife who worked at the University of Chicago hospital for her entire career, oncology department. I have more crazy Afib stories than I care to remember. Thankfully after 7 months of hell my wife and our doctor got in through my thick skull to try some medication. Symptom free for 3 1/2 years now with very minimal drug side effects.
  9. Snarkhund


    Ugh stents before 50 sucks Boog. The good news is that people live a very long time with stents. Well into 90s no problem if you are diligent about the stress tests. Those stress tests have saved my dad a couple of times, its literally the only way to know whats really going on. If there is a problem you get things adjusted or get a bit of new plumbing but as long as you haven't had an actual heart attack you should be ok for decades and outlive many here.

    I'm 60 but I'm fit. For some reason I enjoy that particular pain endured when climbing hills on a good road bike even though I'm way too big to be a climber. The best climbers come from your area, Columbia, and are little mountain goats who weigh 130 lbs and have the lung capacity of a freaking Inca up on Machu Picchu. If I live in a wintery place I have a LeMonde Revmaster and crank the load, stand up and wail on it. On travel I take my Trek Madone in a hard case. I went in for a surgery to fix a broken wrist last fall and was laying there on the table about to get anesthesia and the doctor asked if I was a runner and said my resting heart rate was 44 bpm.

    I read something about garlic and cardio when I was in my 40s and starting taking garlic supplements consistently since then and so far have avoided the problems common in my family.
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Bugenhagen and smallfil like this.
  10. Bugenhagen


    The joys of being a sniper in my old work, understandably when guys could fire back they don't fuck around, mortars, RPGs, lots of BMGs and if course the "is that a tank!?" moment or two when embedded with some army guys (normally I just wrecked poacher's Toyota Hiluxes and boats). One blast was being next to a guy who stood on a mine. The shock waves play merry hell with tissue and nerves.

    But yes, I have already have one of four move out of position, teething problems but the doc figures good for 20 years. By then I expect they will just grow a new one.

    I just climb stairs with a suitcase full of water bottles held out on front as much as possible, current building in the city has 30 floors and a couple of decently sized emergency stairs. My new forge was great exercise until we moved to the farm for lockdown. Hammering steel is real work and more interesting than the gym for me as I'm actually making stuff.

    A pain about the heart fibs is the 'can I eat that?' with junk food now as I'm sensitive to salt and especially hotdogs if they have a particular preservative. A minute on the lips, a night of nĂ¡usea and general weird feeling pumper.
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    #10     May 22, 2020