Wrong....JC IS NOT a broker dealer - they are a sub group of Ocean View which itself is a CBSX registered firm. All traders in the subs of Ocean View need to be registered with the parent firm, but the original statement is valid - JC is not a b/d.
CSFX, I never claimed JC Trading is a BD...I said that their traders trade on the CBSX. I was refuting the point by SgtSlottter that they are an "unregistered BD", which they are not. Here is the difference: Firms like Lake Street and CTG will probably get shut down as they are LLC's acting like BD's. They collect commissions and accept deposits. Those are functions of a BD and must register. Anyway, I will stick to my original point that traders should stick to firms that have been around for a while. Good Trading!
Admittedly, my wording was wrong but you've all made the point. Here is what is indisputable: 1) JC is a sub group, not a broker dealer. 2) Because they are not a broker dealer, you won't get audited financials on SEC.gov as you would with any SEC registered firm. 3) Because they are not a broker dealer, your pay checks might going to get crossed against their losing traders, dependent on the financial arrangement with the BD they are a SUB group of. Unless you get paperwork explaining the terms of the arrangement from them (in writing, or a copy of their arrangement with whatever BD - price redacted is fine), you're in limbo if one of their other traders blows up. 3) Because they are not a broker dealer, you'd probably get a better deal going direct to the BD instead of wasting your time with some guys the master group needs to mark up to make money on. (Agree, not always, and maybe there are some intangibles that offset this, although I'm suspect). 4) JC Trading helps run (according to a 2008 post on this site) Nevis Trading, which is an unregistered broker dealer based in an offshore tax haven. Pretty much makes them 'part of' an unregistered broker dealer... Hmmm.... BTW, I thought they were part of WTS, not Ocean View... Of course, their website doesn't say it. I am always curious about that. Are they embarrassed? Can someone clarify the arrangement of who they are under now?
Sgtslotter, After reading some of your posts (slow trading day), I can see we are both on the same side....always do your due diligence! As for JC, all I can say is that I have traded with them in the past and they are real stand up guys. I know they merged with OV a couple years back and aren't really a sub-group but rather partner with them. Things might have changed since then....probably best for potential traders to call them with any questions instead of me sounding like I am trying to defend them. As far as Nevis, they are NOT open to US traders, and is an offshore hedge fund...says it right on their website (www.nevistrading.com). Anyway...good trading and always do your DD!
Still fishy why a US based CO would have any offshore accts, im sure they will run that CO and find out if they have or have not run US business through the CO
Thanks. It's due to sites like ET that have helped others to conduct due diligence, despite having to sift through the nonsense posts.
Guys, CTG operates under WTS. WTS is the broker-dealer. If you are a pro or have some career experience in financial industry, you won't need to dig forums for days before you get answers. I emailed to both CTG & WTS. WTS has many other sub LLC companies in many states. Ask the right questions to them and you should get a straigt forward answer, if they stop replying you or ignoring your questions, just hang up and call another prop firm that is on your list. If you have series 7 under your belt, CTG will give you better rates : Min .0055 ( for under 100k shares) & .0015 over $2mill in my case. Keep in mind there are also ECN fees on top of that which you can ask and they will give you the rates. If you don't have series 7, the rates are higher. If you are experienced trader, you can bump up the buying power anywhere from 10:1-20:1 but initially they want to give you 6:1 if you new. They pay you monthly through wedbush bank. Also always ask them which broker dealer they go through. This will become clear when you have to go for finger print and fill up u-4 and all that. This is where you will have the clear picture of if you think they are serious or not. If you study series 7, you will know that things are very strict for both broker dealers and licensed person. I don't think serious companies would wanna jeopardize all their yrs long effort to scam and lose it all. One thing I notice that most of these prop shops will talk to you about Scalping ( trading method) where they generate most of their revenue from buy making you trade. If this is not what you are looking for, tell them up front. Ask them if you can hold overnight. Most won't give you same marging for holding overnight. I never traded with any prop firms other than my own. If you find any specifics about other prop firms, let me know. I am searching a good one but I sure will take my time until I get all my answers. Hope this helps!
cubecode, thanks for the input. First of all, what long years effort has Capital Traders Group put in. As far as I can tell, they started this year. 2nd, WTS started in 2008 in the US, or maybe 2009. And effort? Telling people they are 'hired', then asking for $1,500 in capital isn't much effort. Truth is, the Series 7 refers to FINRA firms mainly. There is almost nothing about trading a CBOE / CBSX prop brokerage's money. Its all about protecting customers in FINRA firms. WTS nor CTG is a FINRA firm. They are subject to CBOE oversight. So if you want the first rule that is obvious (call the CBOE) ask them if they allow foreign traders. So how does CTG's website have a link for international traders on their front page? And does it say anywhere on CTG's website they are part of WTS? Why are they embarrassed to announced who their broker is? There are 3 other fronts for these guys I have found so far. Principal Trading Group, LES Trading, JC Trading (I think is through WTS, can someone clarify?) You seem to have experience with them. Why would anyone go through CTG vs. WTS, and when you say scalping, you mean rebate trading ALU, Sprint, SIRI and Nokia right? Which means you have learned nothing about how to trade and wasted your time...
Hello SGT, Most prop trading firms will take anyone, whether you have series 7 or you have no knowledge of trading. If you tell them you have series 7, u will get all the answers as to who they are associated with. Some people don't know what series 7 is, so they would have no clue and when you call these firms, they won't bother telling you anything other than what you want to know. In my case, I need my series 7 to be valid and don't want it to lapse as it was one heck of a painful exam and experience. CTG did tell me that their broker/dealer is WTS as I mentioned earlier. Another guy contracted me from west coast providing me with 2 links. 1 is wts's and the other one is something he recently formed. I still didn't get all the details from him as I requested. He did manage me to call me and talk to me over the phone but refused to send me all the details unless I am ready to sign up. That guy told me that he would wave all the fees but the profit split is 50/50 plus some weird rules that he would enforce to get you ready in 3 months. Honestly, i couldn't get hold of anyone directly with WTS and get their rates. As for scalping, you are right. It is so called rebate trading. I usally tell them I am not interested in that and I am not comfortable with that. This is where they generate most of their income from. To me it's just churning and I thought it is a violation but finra is not going after these. I guess Scalping/rebate trading is called Plan B. I did check WTS's financial report via sec website ( which was posted by someone in this thread), it didn't look impressive since they only had 40k cash on hand for 2010. I have sent many emails to many prop firms and what I noticed that some will try to avoid you if you ask them legit questions. Some use regular hotmail/gmai; account to advertise and ask you to call them instead. I found lake street to be a little reliable because some successful trader use them. This particular trader has his own $100+/month trading chat room where he annouces his explosive trades which are ready to take off. If you sign up with lake street, you get his service entirely free. Also, I heard lake street is good for any kinds of stocks ( pink sheet, bb,etc) you want to trade. I usually trade stocks that are $1-$15, so it fits my need. I don't have any other evidence to know that this firm is any better the the rest. As for the deposit, if you get hired as a trader in the top prop trading firms, you trade at firm's risk but it is very competitive and you have to pass 3 brain twisting exams with very little time. Plus, once you are hired, your hands are tied to what they program you to do. Most other firms will ask you for risk deposits. Even SMB capital ( from wall street warrior MOJO tv show) ask you to put deposit. I failed to find any prop firm that will take me with no deposit unless you have proven trading records for years. Let me know, if you find out anything else. I am desperately looking for a good and reliable prop firm.