Kudos to MMs

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by nitro, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. Daal

    Daal

    Dude, if they do 1000 transactions with the huge seller unloading everything, in everyone of them for every buyer there is a seller, so my statement holds
     
    #861     Sep 15, 2009
  2. nitro

    nitro

    I am a mathematician and I am stickler for definitions. What you said is not this. It is what you may have meant, but not what you stated. However, I understand what you mean.

    So basically you believe the market goes up on value (earnings, velocity of earnings, etc) and I think that has almost nothing to do with anything.

    It is simply money chasing an asset class, and too few "sellers" meeting them at the given price. The myriad of reasons why this can be is guessing. In fact, there could be no reason. Index funds, pension funds, etc have $x to put into different asset classes, and in it goes. In other words, it is almost all beta. No reason other than that these institutions have money inflowed into them have to put to use. Value velocity etc? Irrelevant.
     
    #862     Sep 15, 2009
  3. Daal

    Daal

    I dont agree with this theory if you are talking about longer time frames. You can see the market reacting to economic data. GDP growth rates in the first year of recovery translates into 6x corp profit growth rates in the national income accounts(source: Barrons), therefore unless you are arguing that earnings dont matter in the long-run, its very resonable for people to use equities as casino to bet on where the economy is going

    And value does matter, John Mauldin has plenty of data on stock returns being depending on the starting PE ratio of the market when you bought. HOWEVER if you are referring to short-term I do agree, anything can go and the fundamentals can be distorted by whatever speculative mindset that is going on. People will chase trends, rationalize,etc
     
    #863     Sep 15, 2009
  4. nitro

    nitro

    Well, no question markets move in response to news. I think it is all a mirage. You know what my theory of markets is? The only time the value of a company's shares should rise or go lower is when a company raises or lowers its dividend. Everything else that people usually quote (earnings, margins, blah blah) in theory leads to this rising or lowering of the dividend for the shareholder, but it doesn't always, or even mostly. All the other reasons spouted on Economics books and trading books are greater fool theory maskeraded.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

    For example, people have always stated how amazing GE was to magically for ever make its earnings target. What most don't know is that GE did this by finagling with the dividend on the back end. You know why they did this? Because the earnings number is deemed more important than the money that they pay you with those earnings as a shareholder. LMAO!!!! Companies lie all the time, and some of those lies are legal, and some are not. The only thing that is real is the dividend they pay you. Try buying a can of tuna with shares of GE.

    However, that what you are saying is correct. It is only correct though because every one else has bought into the beauty contest.

     
    #864     Sep 15, 2009
  5. You're reminding me of years ago, talking to a British insurance actuary, and trying to explain that American stocks were valued on earnings rather than dividends. Couldn't get it for a while, and when he finally did, he was, well, amazed and mortified.
     
    #865     Sep 15, 2009
  6. bighog

    bighog Guest

    Nitro has a major flaw, well more than one.

    #1 He says he is a math person and is not flexible. He is fixated on assuming the mkts are pure "SCIENCE" and requires no "ART". That explains why he refuses to recognize some traders have more skills than others and also explains his lack of recognizing that trading is a game of chance. He refuses to allow room to "play the odds" on what the mkt action is showing him on the screen. He allows no room for a traders "INTUITION" based on past experience.

    All the above explains why he has a horrible habit of refusing to use a STOP LOSS.

    :eek:
     
    #866     Sep 15, 2009
  7. dont

    dont

    What are you on about, he has stopped his loss on numerous occasions. Also has said that some-things can't be "mathematized"
     
    #867     Sep 16, 2009
  8. Jim Slater in "Beyond the Zulu Principle" suggests that free cash flow is a better valuation measure than earnings per share - because it is less easy to fiddle. He may or may not be correct - I've yet to find any edge using backtesting, but it doesn't do any harm.
     
    #868     Sep 16, 2009
  9. nitro

    nitro

    "FV" ~890
     
    #869     Sep 16, 2009
  10. nitro

    nitro

    I have a bad feeling about 1050.

    It looks like Index Options MMs at the CBOE are going to pin 1050 on quadruple witching (that's their short strike). If so, I am in trouble of taking a somewhat stinging loss because I am 85 delta to be out by the latest Sunday night open and probably Friday's close.

    I thought the odds of 1000 over 1050 were substantial. Looks bad...
     
    #870     Sep 16, 2009