KOSPI 200 Futures - Traders

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by RedDuke, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. While I understand that KOSPI 200 Future is liquid, comparing ES and KOSPI 200 Fut I can’t see why trading KOSPI 200 Fut is of special interest (unless it’s just time zone).

    COMPARE AVAILABLE LEVERAGE
    Better leverage available with ES.
    ******


    Contract Value
    ES, 1245 x $50 = approx $62k
    KOSPI 200, 241 x KRW 500,000 = KRW 120,500,000 = approx $105k

    Initial Margin (using IB data)
    ES, $2.5k
    KOSPI 200, 9,295,750 KRW = approx $9k

    So, Available Leverage
    ES, $62k/$2.5k = 25 X
    KOSPI 200, = 12 X


    COMPARE BY DAILY RANGE
    If your edge is the same in both markets, trading ES gives you a more leveraged exposure to the daily price action.
    ******

    ES, say daily range between 10 – 30 points usually
    Value of 10 – 30 points (i.e. number of points X $50) is $500 - $1500 /contract
    So trading 1 contract (initial margin $2.5k) able to trade a daily range worth $500 - $1500
    So, daily range is worth 20% - 60% of initial margin.

    KOSPI, say daily range between 3 - 7 points usually
    Value of 3 – 7 points (i.e. number of points X KRW 500,000) is KRW 1,500,000 – KRW 3,500,000, is approx $1300 - $3000 /contract.
    So trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k) able to trade a daily range worth approx $1300 - $3000
    So, daily range is worth 14% - 33% of initial margin.


    COMPARE BY COMMISSIONS
    Commissions are comparable, or possibly even better for trading KOSPI 200.
    ******

    Commissions (using IB data)
    ES, approx $4 on round trip (I hope I’ve calculated that correctly…)
    So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $2.5k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.2% of initial margin for each contract traded.
    Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($500 - $1500 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.8% of value of daily range.

    KOSPI 200, “0.004% of trade value”
    1 Roundturn => 2 Contracts @ KRW 241 (500,000 Multiplier) => KRW 241,000,0000 x 0.004% = KRW 9640 = approx $8 for round trip.
    So, trading 1 contract (initial margin approx $9k), you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.09% of initial margin for each contract traded.
    Or, alternatively in terms of value of daily range ($1300 - $3000 /contract) , you pay out an amount equivalent to 0.3% - 0.6% of value of daily range.
     
    #251     Nov 11, 2011
  2. wlnd

    wlnd

    Hi def,

    Thanks for the info. I will give IB another shot. Hopefully it's a US server issue for me.
     
    #252     Nov 11, 2011
  3. wlnd

    wlnd

    Hi all,

    I got the fastest and most detailed reply from Woori Futures.
    If you are interested in setting up a korean account, you may consider them.


    Questions:

    2) Can the Kospi 200 Futures data feed from Woori futures be linked to NinjaTrader 7 or other platforms like TradeStation?
    >>Yes, it can be linked to TradeStation.


    Commission
    3) What is the commission per trade in KRW for Kospi 200 Futures?
    >>It is 0.2bp%, which can be negotiated depending on size

    Margin Requirement
    4) What is the margin I must deposit with Woori Futures in order to day trade Kospi 200 Futures? I am a 1 or 2 lot per trade, day trader, who will exit all positions before market close.
    >>Preliminary margin: KRW 15ML

    Initial margin: 15% of the full value of contracts

    Maintenance margin: 10% of the full value of contracts


    5) Can my margin deposit be lower since I only trade 1 or 2 lots of Kospi 200 Futures per trade & exit all my positions at the end of the day?
    >>No, all clients must meet margin requirement.


    6) What is the intraday margin I must meet to day trade 1 or 2 lots of Kospi 200 Futures?
    >>Order margin: 15% of the full value of contracts.

    Ex) if the price is 246.70 and you want to buy 1 contract, 246.70 x 500,000 x 1 x 0.15


    Funding My Account
    7) How do I fund my account? What are the transfer fee charges?
    >>Wire the funds to your account at Woori Futures.

    There is no charge for transfer on our side.


    8) Can I fund my account in my local currency & maintain my deposit with Woori Futures as those instead of KRW? If not do you accept margin in USD or CHF?
    >>Yes, you may deposit in USD/CHF instead of KRW but 1/3 should be in KRW. USD/CHF are all acceptable foreign currencies, however there is a haircut ratio, 95% valuation assessment.

    9) The money I earn/ lose will be in KRW when trading Kospi futures. Will my account balance be in KRW then? Can I choose to convert & hold it in another currency using the HTS platform?
    >>Yes, all P/L will be in KRW. Each day your foreign currency is valuated at exchange rate given by the exchange. You can either just hold the foreign currency or convert it to KRW.



    Standing Proxy
    10) Do I have to appoint a standing proxy?
    >>No


    11) If I have to appoint one, how can I do so?
    >>N/A


    12) What are the additional costs involved?
    >>N/A



    Opening a Cash Account at Bank
    13) I have a local Savings account. Can I use this instead?
    >>Yes, you may use those accounts.


    14) If not, how do i open a cash account that meets Woori Future's requirements?
    >>N/A


    18) How long does it take to open an account from the day Woori Futures receives my application form?
    >>Couple of hours will do.


    Competitors
    19) What does Woori futures offer that is than its competitors?
    >>We offer reliable service and real time assistance, we are all fluent in English and can help assist with any problems related to trading or technical issues. We have experience in the market for quite some time and know what our clients need.
     
    #253     Nov 16, 2011
  4. Thanks for the info!
     
    #254     Nov 16, 2011
  5. Thanks!
     
    #255     Nov 16, 2011
  6. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    Time zone of the market is one of its very attractive attributes.

    10-30 ticks of ES range is not the norm. During calmer period KOSPI tend to have a better intra day range than ES.
     
    #256     Nov 16, 2011
  7. dtb37

    dtb37

    Thanks for your thoughts on markets to trade. Have had a couple of days on the SPI and it really seems to have a similar feel to the kospi which I like. How do you find the Hang seng? - I haven't had chance to look into it much, but have heard that it's pretty crazy.

    Also, agree with your observations on the Kospi. I never start before 930 and am usually out by 2pm. Lunchtime is easy to get chopped up and lose the morning's profits.

    I had a look at the Nikkei mini, but fell asleep either waiting to get filled, or for something to actually happen.

    My system only really allows me about 3-5 trades per day, so it's good to have a few markets in a similar timezone to look at.
     
    #257     Nov 17, 2011
  8. wlnd

    wlnd

    HSI is more whacked than DAX in the aspect that some prices may even be skipped through.

    For nikkei 225, if you go to the osaka exchange website and d/l the docs on % breakdown of pple trading it, you'll see that many are foreigners.. these guys are the same 'locals' who trade NK225 on SGX at trading arcades. These guys have servers at each exchange, which means their connections are very much faster than our home connections. Since NK225 is traded on OSE, SGX n CME + it has a high tick increment of 5pts, I'd say it's a scalper's inter-mkt game.. where the fastest fingers win. Unless you are trading it on a longer tf or are using it to hedge, it's not advisable to trade it from home.
     
    #258     Nov 20, 2011
  9. dtb37

    dtb37

    Cheers for the info on those. I think I'll stick to the kospi and spi for the moment and look at the dax next year.

    If you don't mind me asking, where are you based and what else do you trade? I'm in New Zealand, so I usually work on my other business in the morning and trade from midday to 6pm which works well.
     
    #259     Nov 21, 2011
  10. wlnd

    wlnd

    Hi there, I'm from Singapore. I'm trade 1 lot on ES at the moment as it suits my 2% of capital @ risk/ trade rule. Other than ES, I have only very limited attempts at kospi & stopped due to its tick size of 22usd v ES at 12.50usd. It's mentally screwing to be down 10% of my cap with just 3 bad trades in a row.

    Also used to trade nikkei 225 futures, then hit a roadblock as a breakeven trader.. unable to master the special skill sets needed such as order flow reading. I have stopped since to focus on price action trading which is more suited to my slow wits.

    If you are seeking ideas on what other instruments to trade other than kospi, ES and FESX (bid/asks r thicker) comes to mind. These contracts are all similar in terms of liquidity and movement. Hence if you can trade kospi, you can trade these.

    You sound like you have a great part-time morning job. ES could work since you can trade it thru the night before heading to work. It's a good time now since DST is off and it's 1 hour closer to your waking time.
     
    #260     Nov 22, 2011