I tried to e-mail you but I couldn't. I'm not that experienced with this so I will answer here. I am not looking to personally attack anyone. The point of my posts was to have other people stop attacking firms they did not know enough about to attack. I apologize to all for not being clearer about my message. I am successful. I make more than $65 per hour. Obviously, trading is a great job if you are profitable. Consulting is a difficult job. Always looking for new jobs, expenses etc. I respect independent consultants. There are many many entrepreneurial opportunities that command respect. I respect an expert in his field's opinion. Maybe I am a fool, but I don't respect non experts giving ignorant opinions about areas outside of their expertise. I am sorry to all I offended. I will try to be a value added player. I think if you read some of my other posts in other threads you will see I have done just that -- added value. Judge for yourself. Thanks.
Thank you for your reply. Please be kind enough to talk about the limitations put on new ETG traders who do not contribute capital, and also the criteria for those limits to be raised. Thanks again.
When I was starting out, and I have a friend there now who started on Sept 1, we started out with a few stocks and a few shares (200-300) until we made money 3 or 4 days in a row. Then they would increase our line slowly. It was described to me to be like a weight lifter. He wouldn't jump from 150 lbs to 300 after a successful lift, he would build up to higher and higher levels. The risk manager seems to let you have enough room to hang yourself. He doesn't like to second guess a judgement call, he will question the reasoning behind a trade. As long as I had a valid reason I was ok. Since they were taking 100% of my losses below zero cummulative total they were against me taking a shot that had the risk reward relationship between trader and ETG screwed up. If they were taking 100% of the loss on a trade and had only 25% of the profit then they wanted me to prove myself before I got larger. I felt that was reasonable. They seemed to be willing to take a lot of risk when the trader shared in the risk (the reasoning was a trader will make rational economic decisions with his money) and not a lot of risk when the trader had no money up or was just starting. They gave me a good opportunity to learn the business and were very willing to help me learn and talk trading. They had a contract that I felt was reasonable but it sets them up in an adversarial relationship with a trader who does real well in the beginning. (Maybe like Bryan Roberts a previous poster). They did agree for me and others in my class to eliminate the contract and make us full members like the rest of the firm. I was able to switch from a "trainee" making $24,000 salary PLUS 30% of my profits to 70% (at the time -- now 75-85%) of profits and no salary. As explained to me, they felt it would take over a year, close to two years to be consistently profitable. So, the first year, getting a salary, I was better off because 24k was better than zip. The second year they felt that the 24k plus 30% would probably equal the 70% payout and in year three ETG would be a little better off leaving us "whole" for the 3 year period. As a new trader without money in the bank (loans for college and maxed credit cards), I don't think I would have gotten over the hump without the small salary (and some help from my parents). ETG's payout could be higher, their commission could be lower, but they offered me a chance to learn the business. I stuck around long enough I think for both me and ETG to be paid off. I have saved enough where I can trade my own money as a customer (4to1 intraday under the new rules) and be happy. They have some traders who have been there for close to 8-9 years. They are very loyal to traders who follow the company thinking. I know of traders who have lost money for a few years in a row who they have given salaries or loans to in order to keep them in business. These guys weren't doing a lot of volume so I don't think it was for the commissions. There were some traders who did not like ETG's corporate culture and thought the contract was too long who left. Some of those traders felt that the bigger, more successful traders got more leeway and sometimes better equipment. ETG is a niche firm that is great for some and inappropriate for others. Do your research to see if you would fit in.
Thanks for responding. I apologize if I came off as rude. It's always good to have a successful trader on this board who's willing to share his experiences with a firm or in trading. Good or bad.
newatthis. You have really illuminated the situation at ETG. Personally, I think a 75% payout is very reasonable given no capital contribution from a new trainee and firm takes all losses. Do they EVER lower the ticket cost/per share cost/bullet cost? Thanks again.
given the last little dig i feel compelled to respond....i agree, newatthis, exchanging replies with you was a waste, please don't use my name in future post. just a reminder to others, this thread is labeled "know anything about etg". it wasn't "know anything about etg for only the past 24 months"!!!!! all of the information in my previous post are 100% true and i hope it has helped those with an open mind. when i got started in this business there was very little competition especially outside of new york and chicago. now thanks to many on this board there are numerous options in this industry, and even the "etg's" have come around to offering what sounds like reasonable deals. but my gratitude is towards companies like bright and echo who have forced the others to play catch up!!!!
Please read what I said before you pass judgement. I did not take a dig at you. I was using your example to point out why ETG's contract was flawed. I complimented you for doing well in the beginning. I was trying to be nice. I am sorry. But as you wish, I won't use your handle ever again.
Sorry, I missed the question. The bullets costs are variable. There is a whole schedule that applies to as far as I could tell and was told to EVERY trader the same way. They rebate you based on monthly volume. THe low is I think a penny and a half. They use two different firms. If you want to hold a married put for more than one day then the cost is higher because it clears through SLK. One day exercise marrieds do not clear SLK so there are no ticket charges associated. They have two standard rates at ETG and let you pick which is best for you. All of their traders are on one of those rates. They don't make individual deals if that is what you are asking. ( I think there is a third rate that a few of their original traders are on) If you are a decent size trader in fewer stocks they have a rate that will come in at about a penny for listed stocks. For OTC they charge 1.5 cents including ecn fees. They will give you a flat rate for listed, but I am not sure what that number is. I used the average price ticket deal. They will give you all the details before you sign up. Ask the person you interviewed with. I know a few not all of the branches, so depending on where you are, I could give you a name and number if you send me a message.
Thank you again for illuminating the situation at ETG. Is there a minimum bullet size? Hitman at Worldco mentions a 1500 share minimum sized bullet - I was wondering if ETG is the same. Finally, if there is a minimum sized bullet, what are the TOTAL costs of setting one up and then using it? I appreciate your comments as I'm sure others who are considering ETG also do. Thanks!