know anything about

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by smithj, Feb 3, 2001.

  1. smithj


    I just graduated from college and came across a job opening with this company. The job description on campus made it sound like they train college kids to be traders and allow them to trade with the etg money. But their website sounds like they make their money by training traders for a fee.

    Anyone know anything about this?
  2. Ruler


    Electronic Trading Group.

    If you are considering this firm, you might as well work some where else. Don't judge a firm by its website. Signing three year contracts and earining 30-50% of what you make is bad business. You should be able to learn trading on your own. You may get a piss poor salary, but will be locked in for three years.

    They have HIGH commissions, and don't offer any edges in trading technology. Offices are run pretty poorly, and the atmosphere is very politcal. My advice is that if you don't know what you are doing, and don't mind paying higher fees(resulting in more work to make $$), then trade there. It seems like traders are leaving them once they toy with ETG's cash.

  3. joe5000


    saying that the commissions are high is such an understatement.

    while u do get to learn to trade with etg money you are pretty much an indentured servant for 3 years. you have very little freedom to develope your own trading style no matter what the management may tell you.

    there are so many fees and charges you pay out of your share that you will have a very hard time making money during those 3 years.

    you would be better off lookin somewhere else, there are some other firms out there with better deals for traders, but none yet that are really great in all areas, so be careful!!
  4. WarEagle

    WarEagle Moderator

    Could someone explain how a firm like this works? I went to their website and couldn't find much information on the details. I have always thought that in order to trade at an office you had to have your own money, even if you received higher margin capabilities by pooling capital.

    What kind of "salary" do you receive? How is a firm like this able to allow just anyone to come in off the street and trade their money without that person being responsible for losses? It sounds too good to be true for someone with limited capital, even if they require a limited time contract.

    joe5000 mentioned there were other firms like this with better deals. Who are they? Has anyone here gone this route and become successful? While I agree that trading for yourself is ultimately the best way, for someone with limited capital like myself, I must admit that it sounds intriguing.

    Any advice is much appreciated.

  5. I used to work for ETG when they started. I know the owner
    well and I still have a friend who trades there (in NYC). If you are a trader employee ANYWHERE you will have rules to abide by so what is the big shock for ?????
    Having said that you of course have spoken some facts based
    on views of the evarage public who thinks trading is easy and they can live on no income only trading. ETG attemps to teach their trainees prudent trading. Without disputing much of you said - I will focus on facts
    that were left out.
    1) you get a salary and you risk no funds of your own !!!
    2) you need not put up any money if they make some kind
    of an offer and you sign the 3 year deal.
    3) Now (recently) I am pretty sure they offer up to 50%
    of what you make with no real risk !!!!
    4) my friend trades ARB trades and has millions to his
    disposal to trade with.
    P.S. if you have been offered a different deal think
    nothing of it they may deem you a marginal trader and
    hence the lack of real offer.

    Also Spear Leads is a major investor of their and in the
    SF office they are actually one and the same name.
  6. Wareagle,
    The better firm would be Bright trading. ETG and bright
    are well funded. They use pooled money. Or with ETG they
    just get juice from Spear to generate lots of trades.
    They rebate on New York listed trades. As nasdaq becoming
    a leader. Listed trades can make money at Bright and ETG just for rebates. I don't know the current rebate at ETG
    but it was so-so in 1992. The bottom line if I am a firm
    who has very good risk control and a sweetheart deal (rebate) from Spear Leads I have found a new way to print
    money. I will not spend any more time debating the pros and
    cons of which Pro firm is better. See the thread about 10:1
    margins. Most don't know or pay attention to the least
    discussed subject of rebates for trades. It's like casinos
    comping you and you live on comps as you see no use for
    housing or a kitchen on your own due to you even increased
    need to gamble and using comps even if you don't win.
  7. Like I said I was there(ETG) long ago before they changed
    Now they are part of Spear Leeds and pay a salary of about
    ~2 grand a months. Not much in any major metro area. They
    will give the salary part openly without much negotiation
    needed, they likely will ask if you have some other sources to live on ! (if they willingly take you on) the negotioations must be about the split !! They used to give 30% and many of the good traders left(went to Bright, no wonder and elswhere in NYC) Ask for 50% at least. It's a fair deal, they will bear the risk and you can learn, plus make some $$$ !!!!! Ask them about the rebate !!!

    So I hope this helps. You also have to pass a registration
    etc.(Series 7 plus some nasdaq trader test) True, from the other posters that ETG's nasdaq setup is a bit weak !!!!!
    Most nasdaq is done in SF but they stuff is kinda regional with out much central conrol. So be-ware !!! They are a listed firm, trade listed stuff there first !
    It's easier anyway !!!! redi+ is not all that great for level 2.
    Good luck. I am first to admit if you are experienced and
    semi-good willing to improve and have money to risk, ETG
    is does not look that great !!! But remember if you have
    no means, have family or have kids etc. trading will demand
    sacrifices and money. ETG will take on a young guy with
    nothing or little to support himself.
  8. WarEagle,
    I don't know your circumstances at all and I have nothing
    to do with ETG now. I am on my own. I live near SF and
    I am in the computer consulting business. My friend who
    is still with ETG (one of the original traders there)
    may be willing to talk to you in person and answer some
    questions. Pay attention, I am not saying that you should
    go there or not go there. I could not care less !! BUT
    if you are a person of some character my friend will likely
    talk with you and help you make up your mind !!!!
    I see you live in Alabama, so maybe you have to move to a city where these trading firms (Bright, ETG) have offices.
    Where are you thinking of moving, if at all ?????
    E-mail me if you care and maybe I can pass my friend's number in NY (at ETG) if he will talk with you.
  9. WarEagle

    WarEagle Moderator


    Thanks again. If the opportunity were good I would be willing to relocate. I noticed they have 2 offices in Atlanta, not sure if there are any other firms like that there, but I would guess there are. I have already planned to move to Atlanta in the summer when I finish my MBA here. Birmingham is not exactly a financial mecca, and I would have to move there for a decent job anyway, lol. Here we have only one daytrading firm, On-site Trading, and they require you to have your own capital I think.

    I will email you like you said. Thanks for taking the time to help. I still don't understand how the rebate works, so I have some research to do first.

    If anyone else has had experiences with firms like these I would appreciate any input.

  10. Ruler


    Wake up andrasnm

    ARB Trading has its limits, so don't be fooled. There is no way a firm will give you unlimited margin. You'll have to pay for it one way or another. And I can assure you the firm is not going to pay for it. They will probably charge you haircuts.

    See, its a numbers game. They may tell you no haircut, unlimited margin overnight, but first, they compute whether or not you are making enough money for them. Such as on your trading. For instance, you trade alot of volume. they are charging you .01 or higher. their cost is probably around .003-.004 at best. say you make 5,000. you'll have to give them 3,500 of what you make. You may be able to hold 5000 by 7000 in a spread, but there is no way that you are going to be able to hold 25,000 by 40,000 what ever the ratio is. If you make them enough in commission, then, and then its a maybe. so its a catch 22.

    No risk? how about the risk that you can't make much. what if you made 20,000. you are going to give up 14,000 to them? that's not including a desk fee if they have one. are you getting volume rebates? like at other firms?

    Also, three years seems like an eternity. wouldn't you say? This is a business. If someone has a better deal, then you leave. Sign it, and you can't leave. Its just like a regular job, if someone has better commissions, that could be a 100,000 dollar raise. You do the math.

    I ain;t a wizard. So wake up and smell the coffee.
    #10     Feb 6, 2001