Knighthood for Rushdie revives death threats

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thunderdog, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. Oh sorry, you're right. If 100% of them aren't rioting, burning, looting and killing innocent people over this or that imagined slight to islam, it's just wrong to point out that their presence in a country tends to coincide with problems.

    That "majority of muslims living in america" seem remarkably able to hide their revulsion for what is done in the name of their religion as well. There's one doctor out in Oklahoma who started a group of muslims to criticize the crazies, but his is a lonely voice. Of course, who can blame them? Criticize them and someone walks up to you on the street and sticks a knife in you.
    #21     Jun 22, 2007
  2. Moron Troll.

    Islam as practiced in America by third generation immigrants who are totally assimilated is obviously not what AAA meant, although we have seen that a frightening number of young Muslims in the West have expressed solidarity with the hard line in the Middle East..

    'Modern Islam' is what is being practiced in Iran and the camps in Pakistan. That is clearly what AAA meant and the fact that you willfully twisted his words and lied by suggesting that AAA was talking about American Muslims who deplore the acts of the radicals is... well, asshole, it's what we've come to expect from you.

    One of the freaky things about the problem we are facing is that so many seemingly civilized Muslims seem to feel a kinship with the suicide bombers, and within the Islamic West, there is clearly a hard movement to the right, with mosques being renovated to separate women and political pressure being brought to bear by Muslims lobbyists to allow them to govern themselves according to Sharia Law. What makes me think that it's not the women who are behind this movement?

    What a tragic turn of events in the Gaza Strip these past few sets the Palestinian cause back years.
    #22     Jun 22, 2007
  3. This same point has been made by me and others here countless times, and apologists like the Disgusting Troll never seem to answer it. This is because they cannot. The silence of moderate Muslims could be considered to be their biggest shame unless you take into consideration the fact that speaking out can get you, your wife and family murdered in the most grotesque ways.
    #23     Jun 22, 2007
  4. TGregg


    There is no "modern" islam. The Koran is quite literally the direct word of Allah. Not "As Written By Rappin' Mo". Not "To be interpreted according to the times and customs". Not partially ignored because Mo was a barbarian and we know better about some things. Not subject to any sort of redefinition in any way. It is error free and perfect as the word of Allah should be, according to the faith.

    True islam is seventh century Evil.
    #24     Jun 22, 2007
  5. Excellent point.
    #25     Jun 22, 2007
  6. Actually, as I understand it, that was the pointof Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses." Certain verses in the koran were obviously inconsistent with others, and the explanation was that mohammed had been fooled by satan into thinking they were the word of allah. The problem is that once you introduce the concept of mohammed's fallibility, who is to say that the rest of the koran is sacrosanct?
    #26     Jun 22, 2007
  7. You are the expert in true Islam?

    #27     Jun 22, 2007
  8. TGregg


    Exactly. Take this news for one small example:

    But I'm sure they were peaceful death threats.
    #28     Jun 22, 2007
  9. dude there are a bunch of problems in there, your not gonna ever solve any single one of them if you look at them as a bunch, unless you propose to slaughter 1+ billion muslims but then i would say that perhaps the problem is with you too? just kidding...

    pb1: the imams / preachers.
    We need to vet them, or jail / expel them or both, depending. Even a vetted imam, if found preaching violence for ANY FUCKIN' REASON WHATSOEVER needs be jailed on the spot and/or expelled. Same goes for any agitated bozos in the street who would attempt to oppose the measure.
    But perhaps we need tougher laws against incitation to violence and murder for that... don't know the detail of where u guys are placed in the US on that?

    pb2: the Qu'ran.
    any author can state that his/her words are the true unaltered words of XYZ speaking thru his/her mouth.
    while we can't stop the writers (Mohammad in this case but there will be others), any reader/listener who is known to be willing to believe any such stuff "on faith", given the number of violent verses in the Qu'ran and there are quite a few of them, and how it gives imams power to command to them (jihad etc), is a potential danger to society.
    requires psychometric eval at the very minimum, and psychometric eval of parents and close friends & associates as well... says "big brother" me... and needs "reinforcement" on critical thinking type abilities

    pb3: moderate muslims in our countries. REFORM
    they need to think this through... whatever the story was in the 7th century and why and how Mohammad came up with a smart way to control the minds and bodies of hundreds of thousands, now billions, of rather weak-minded people in his struggle against the Christian powers, they need to GROW OUT of that, and quick...

    hence the emphasis that should continue to be put on ijtihad / the reformists, and we shld help (but not financially otherwise they will get rejected even more by other muslims...)

    ok, some say its impossible to reform Islam, and i've seen fairly strong cases.

    But the point here is to get beyond semantics, there will always be one or many hardline "True Islam" sects or whatever, happens in many religions... while the latter need to be monitored tightly wherever they are, what we need moderate muslims to do is equip themselves with better preachers and better teachings...

    and notably to recognize that Islam is impossibly intolerant to any form of criticism, and THATS NOT GONNA WORK! therefore they need to get thru with REFORM, or GET OUT!

    as an interim measure, i wouldn't be shocked if we started with closing down Islamic schools that we establish are spewing inappropriate teachings (and the same goes for some wacko Christian Schools in the West as well btw, like the Jerry Falwell "Liberty" Uni etc)

    then mosks themselves, where there is no "adequate" imam

    freedom of religious practice doesn't entail condoning nor inciting to violence and murder...

    pb4: legacy of inept US foreign policy over the last 60 years, and continuing...

    that's actually pb#1... why?

    cause for one, if the US hadn't removed or undermined secular arab leaders in the Middle East for Israel/Palestine or oil related power play in the region, these guys / their secular successors would still be around and in (relative) control, and they wouldn't want to be pushed around too much, if at all, by religious types... but they're gone, killed or jailed etc by or because of the West, and/or by the hardline religious types...

    If that weren't the case, we wouldn't be dealing today with inflamed arab crowds all over the world because of what's happening in the Middle-East, nor with muslim crowds all over the world, some of which contain hard (psycho) elements who are prompt to call for murder and violence against the Unbelievers type jihad... cause these guys (the latter) would then be a minority with little support or even worse for them, they would be harshly rejected by the mass of other muslims as total fanatics...

    But not if they can be perceived as the last line of defense to protect arab or muslim territories...

    And in such a context, nobody would have to give much of a toss if a screwed-up ayatollah in Shia-land Qom utters a fatwa from time to time...

    Mais voila, we're not quite in such a context, thanks to big bully american foreign policies since way fuckin' too long...

    And thats also why, while i like the spirit and contents of Stephen Walt's book , its way too late for a fix...

    the rest of the world has long stopped trusting america to use its power sensibly, and there is no going back... you've totally lost the respect, and THATS forever...
    #29     Jun 23, 2007