Yeah, but that's FAIR, correct ? Other business like temp/contract IT consulting work charge in the same manner...about 50% of the total goes to their coffers. They hardly raise a finger of effort for that fee. SO IT'S THE SAME WITH PROP FIRMS.
Wrong, it's not fair..... B/c it's not advertised as such..... A deal that's 80/20 should be just that... not turn out 50/50 after fees. Also no one should be taking both a cut and commissions when you're trading your own money. It would be one thing if the firm was absorbing the loses, but you explain to me how it's fair for these firms to advertise that you're trading their money when you're required to put down a deposit or making money on your commission charges while not being a registered b/d.... Not only is this unfair, but illegal for a non-licensed b/d to make an override on tickets. Also, this isn't a temp job.... to get a temp job you're not required to put up money.
Are the "trainees" made aware of this deal before they sign up for training? Do they know that once they are down $5k (their training fee), they will get terminated? I recall at Worldco, the traders would stay on as long as they are gross positive. So, traders who were down even $150k in their account were able to continue as long as they were making the firm money. Is that the case with this firm?
I have never traded at this firm however to get around licensing traders most if not all of these firms use the training fee as a risk deposit. Say the training fee is 5k, if this number is reached in the loss column then most firms have the trader put up more money to take another "Training Session." These firms are not changing the fee structure as much as they are disguising it. A newbie will not understand that getting an 80% payout means that you are actually only keeping somewhere between 30%-50% of his/her Gross Profit, the more shares you trade obviously the more the firm makes. And many times even though it's your money at risk the firm will profit more than the trader.
I dont see a problem with traders keeping 30-50% of what they earn unless their deposit determines whether they continue trading. At worldco, the traders came in with little to no deposit and were able to stay on forever as long as the firm made money off the traders. There literally were traders that were gross positive $30k yet were down $100k net. The firm didn't mind because it didn't lose money from those traders yet. However, I think that if Keystone keeps the traders until they are net negative $5k, that can be construed as fraudulent conduct -- especially when traders are newbies.
Why would it be okay for someone to give up a large portion of their gains when they are trading their own money??? How is it trading firm cap when you're using your own money? It's not fraudulent practice, it's just very deceptive as it is when a firm tells you that you're getting a 50/50 split. It's only 50/50 after the firm takes out what they're making on commissions..... which in most cases will really bring the split down to 25% you and 75% them.
Actually, what I've heard about Keystone is that the deal is that you have to up be at least $100 (so basically above breakeven) at the end of the fourth month, or you're automatically out. So, if that's the case, it's not really a matter of going through your training fee, but how long you take to become profitable. I'm not sure what I think about that. How about all of you?
I don't think that's nearly enough time to learn this job. From what I've heard from various keystone traders who've PMed me, they are all trading 100 - 200 shares at a time. I think it would be very difficult for a new trader to be net positive trading that small share size in the first month.
That's twice now you have posted information with bad math: 1,000,000 shares a month @ .006/share = $6,000. (That's $6/1,000 shares) And in 12 months, what would that be? It ain't $60,000. Your "expertise" can't be taken seriously if you can't even do simple math.
Moron..... try and learn to read..... It would be 60k a year in tickets if you were paying .006 a share assuming that the prop firm themselves was charged .001 a share by the clearing house. So retard, If you trade 1 million shares a month or 50k a day and multiply that by .005 (the amount of pure profit the prop firm is making) Then you get to the figure of 5,ooo dollars of profit the firm makes. And jackass, if you take the number 5,000 and multiply it by 12 months in the year.... Holy crap, you get 60,000 in ticket charges and all of that is the firm's profit. The clearing house makes the the extra 12,000 that your little brain is trying to place somewhere b/c all a prop firm is really just a middle man. So go over your multiplication tables and whatever else you missed with your third grade education, then come back here and apologize for being a hatred filled moron. I simply just can't understand why any traders would attack this post for showing how much money these firms are really taking from you. I have no dog in this fight, I trade my own money and don't pay a middle man. I'm simply stating what I know to be facts and passing it on to beginners looking for a firm and experienced guys who might not have cared to find out themselves. So please explain why you and those like you can't either just shut up, say thank you or actually contribute something to the convorsation that will help fellow traders negotiate a better deal for themselves. But no, instead you are trying to detract from the convorsation by trying dismiss my math as wrong and write a response full of detest instead of taking the time to actually read the post and see that all the numbers are correct. IF YOU KNOW A DIFFERENT WAY TO MULTIPLY 5000 X 12 PLEASE LET ME KNOW.