90% of the Prop firms ARE RETAIL ACCOUNTS. That's why they have to conjure up something like Training Fees to take you money instead of doing it in the form of a risk deposit. Most of these firms are simply 4 to 1 retail accounts that a group of traders share. As a sub account at a firm like Keystone you are not protected in an event where the firm goes belly up. I trade intra-day using a 4 to 1 retail account as most of the old school traders do...... following the 25k minimum balance to be a professional trader law. I was wrong in thinking that most of the traders here did the same which is the reason for this little back and forth going on. Point is that if you trade your on 4 to 1 account intraday you're insured. If you trade at one of these sub llc groups, which I believe Keystone is, then your money isn't insured do to the fact that in reality you're not even trading under your own name and as far as the clearing firm knows it's one singular account under the firms name with other employees allowed to trade it. And as far as the goldman thing goes..... hedge funds, pension funds, mutual funds are not usually leveraged 2 to 1 at most. In essence they are simply massive retail accounts. Lets not forget that people who aren't day trading don't use 20 to 1 leverage.
I agree. The only time your funds are insured is when you are trading in an account under your own name opened at a retail firm. You mislead people into thinking that there are some prop firms that are SIPC insured (ergo, your funds with them) when there is not. A prop account at Bright is not insured. A prop account at Echo is not insured. A prop account at (fill in the name of any ubiquitous CBSX firm name here) is not insured. Your personal account at Assent, Lightspeed, or Genesis IS insured. But a account through any firms that have prop accounts of these above mentioned firms is not insured. "Before you correct someone who is alot more knowledgable than you, I would suggest doing some research."
oh hi ! I wasn't naming firms because I'm not here to advertise. Many canadian firms will offer what I previously stated. Golden, Global Market, Title, etc (BUT !) They are usually after proven profitable traders.
If the $ you put down is not defensible as an account contribution you can be disposed of at will. That, apparently, is Keystone's model. Kindly stop peddling your Mickey Mouse interpretations of the prop industry. -quote from Fractal Fractal you are clueless. Trading is a business its not a charity, its for profit. There won't be a prop firm left e.g. Keystone, WTS etc., if they kept non producers. Apparently you are not aware the rate of success is only 2.4% i.e. 97.6% fail.
ScottSam,we are spoiled here in Canada,especially Quebec with all the .20 per 1000 share deals that are offered. It is totally ridiculous to pay 5k in training fees and a 50% deal,when you can get that at Title Trading without the 5k fee. There is really no training in the prop world that will make you profitable.Training only helps you get a handle on the software(hot keys etc) Every profitable trader i know TAKES FINANCIAL PAIN and a MENTAL BEATING from the market when they start out(me included). To minimize the damage here are 2 things you should do....... 1)Dont go to a remote firm and place a deposit,go to an inhouse firm like Title and Swift that charge the lowest fees possible and trade their money.I was an idiot and started at a remote firm with a deposit,which i burned very quickly. 2)Join a prop firm where you can trade inhouse that has profitable traders, sit next to them and learn from them. Learning curve will acelerate much faster when you are around profitable traders.Then join a firm where you can trade inhouse or from home with deposit and negotiate a better payout.
Wheendeal, If Title Trading targets mostly proven profitable traders, then where would be the best place to learn that would eventually land you at Title? Wouldn't it be easier to land a spot at a less desirable firm and learn there? -Steps
Steps, Unless Title and Swift have changed their business model from my understanding they dont take deposits and dont offer remote trading.You trade at their offices with no deposit,you trade their money,you have no risk. Since they are training you and you are using their money obviously their payouts have to be lower then a firm where you place a deposit and risk your own money.Not all traders leave Swift or Title when they become profitable for better payouts but at least half do. You have it backwards steps,a proven profitable trader(100k+) doesnt go to Title,they go to a remote firm place a deposit and negotiate a higher payout. Unfortunatly i learned the hard way trading at a remote firm,risking my own money at the start.I should have started at Swift or Title,then i would have only taken a mental beating instead of a financial one as well. In my opinion traders just starting out should go 1st to Title and then Swift,they are great places to start.
What are some of the remote firms that you place a deposit in? I've worked at Swift, and I agree, it's better to learn using their money. I'm now looking to trade remotely with another firm, and it is hard to find Canadian firms. Thanks in advance