You make some very good points. I agree with alot of your feelings about foster care and how it could be worse than better situation to put those children in. I agree cps has flaws, and once the children are in the system, the powers of that cps system take away the rights of those mothers. It is very confusing to take only one side becasue both sides of this story have violations of human rights. Is it a crime to trick a women into marrying by deceit? I honestly don't know if that is a crime in american law. I question sincere religious belief. Anyone can make anything a religious belief and than find protection for that belief in the freedom of religion. What if a women has said she has heard from the heavenly father that she is to have many children by many different fathers. And those boys and men who father her children are to be faithful to her only. Hmm, I would say its not a calling from god, but more like a women made religion to satisfy her appetite for variety of men. Why does one god allow for man to have many wives, than other gods say only one man to one women, than some gods say only man and women can have sex and homosexuality is wrong, than other gods say homosexuality is permissable? So to me it seems that all religions have been given laws to suit the needs of someone. Unless there is really not just one god, but many gods who all have different rules? Than all the gods must be arguing with each other yes?
It's refreshing to see someone like you trying to reason with these people, but I can guarantee with 100% certainty that it's useless. They simply do not have the ability to view things objectively enough to see the wisdom in what you're saying. And by the way, just to let you know, TorontoTrader2 is an insane person. You have to expect that if a website has i.e. 10,000 members, there are going to be a few with serious psychopathology, and TorontoTrader2 is one of them. You're wasting your time responding to anything he posts. He is a fanatic religious fundamentalist.
I appreciate your feedback. I don't know what anyones position is until I see their responses. I am just expressing how I feel about some issues on this thread to discuss and get feedback from other points of view. But I wouldn't tell someone if they don't agree with me than they will burn in hell to scare them into agreeing with me. Thank you for your advice.
FLDS children in Texas custody reportedly hospitalized By Brooke Adams The Salt Lake Tribune Article Last Updated: 04/27/2008 12:22:59 PM MDT At least three children taken from a polygamous sect's ranch are in the hospital and attorneys for their mothers say they have received little or no information about their conditions. Attorneys for Texas RioGrande Legal Aid (TRLA) are working to identify the children, the hospitals, and to arrange for their mothers to visit the children. "We can't seem to get anyone on the phone with authority to make that happen and the mothers don't even know the seriousness of the situation," said Amanda Chisholm, a TRLA attorney. The legal aid society, which represents 48 mothers, said one 2-year-old child lost a severe amount of weight while staying at the San Angelo Coliseum. TRLA said the organization was told two days ago that the child was in shock and lethargic, but has received no new information since then about where the child is or regarding her current health situation. The mother is not being allowed to be with this child or her other nursing children, Chisholm said. "We don't seem to be able to get in touch with anyone who can tell us," she said. The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services said Friday that one child had been hospitalized because of dehydration. Attempts today to contact CPS authorities were unsuccessful...... ...... Some mothers have been unable to confirm where their children have gone and others have learned their children have been split up and sent to different locations. TRLA learned this morning that a child thought to be in a group home was actually in a hospital. Some mothers, Chisholm said, "are trying to, sadly, figure out which child needs them more, a child in the hospital or a nursing baby," she said. http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9075298
This has been a disaster ratboy I agree. In my opinion they should have kept all the mothers and children together instead of foster care. Its terribly sad that it happened like this. Most likely the majority of the children are healthy and waiting to be with their mothers. I hope this botched child care arrangements does not take away from looking further into the situation of the women and children of the ranch.
i pray they have found the two missing children and i pray this little hospitalized baby is ok... all differences aside trendy... we both want what is best for these children. i also pray for these mothers to continue to try to save these children from a system that is putting them at risk/in harms way. if that little baby atrophies, i say we arrest Doran, Flora, Swinton, and Walther for child endangerment... God forbid worse.
What is the latest news on missing children? I thought at first maybe the media reported them missing when they were not missing, but in the process of being located. Thy have over 400 people to account for and no one person off the top of their head can remember who is who or where they are. Then someone heard about this and told the media they were missing for a sensational story. These are possibilitys I am saying could be, I am not saying this is fact. Why are those children in the hospital? Was lethargy and dehydration due to not being offered food, which is neglectful and should be punished by law, or were the children not eating and drinking becasue they are upset over being seperated from their mothers? I am curious to what has happened. But all could have been avoided if they kept the women and children together in 2 or 3 big buildings. The government has made some mistakes in their attempt to help
this is the most recent report i could find. it is from texas and is time stamped 6:11 pm 4/27/08... even if they find the children, i can't imagine being the parents of these young ones. how can you not account for a 16 month old? i smell mega lawsuits coming... and rightfully so. Lawyer: Two FLDS boys missing Posted: April 27, 2008 06:11 PM ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - A Texas attorney who represents two mothers from the polygamist retreat alleges child welfare authorities can't account for two boys. Cynthia Martinez of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid says the boys -- a 16-month-old and 11 year-old -- are not on any of the state's placement lists. Child welfare workers in Texas say they're not worried. They told the Corpus Christi Caller-Times that no children have been lost, but that parent-child relationships have been difficult to determine. Department of Family and Protective Services spokesman Patrick Crimmins says he is not aware of children being unaccounted for. Meanwhile, an FLDS member sent a letter to the Texas governor accusing child welfare officials of "horrific" human rights violations. Sect leader Willie Jessop sent a letter asking Gov. Rick Perry to keep the 437 children with their mothers. Jessop says Texas can't properly care for or account for the children. He claims many have been left in critical medical conditions and are suffering separation anxiety. http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=8234520&nav=0s3d
One would think they should have been arrested just for there poor choices of clothes and hair styles,,i mean jeez. The amish,,another similiar cult, the law allows them to allow there kids to quit school at 8th grade. This alone basically makes sure the children will never have a choice in life as what they wish to become since there not allowed to explore these choices. Strip clubs are very regulated as to where they can be yet churches are everywhere,,,more children are abused in churches than strip clubs yet no one does anything about it
I know this is old news, but I thought it worth reading again to remind people of the negligence and abuse that is done in this religion but considered to be what god commanded and not abuse. I am not saying the cps actions are not terrible, they are, but how does this sect have their lawyers claim abuse of their women and children, but not consider waht they have done (see below article) as abuse they have committed? And ask why they have not been prosecuted for abandonment when they have clear evidence (testimony of boys thrown out on the street like Gidgeon Barlow) In our society wouldn't the parent of a minor boy that was thrown out of his house to live on his own be put in jail? How does a mother become distraught over being seperated from her child by cps, but will leave her son to be thrown out of her home because the leaders tell her she has to? This is her brainwashed cult mentality speaking. This is her religion telling her its ok to abuse her child becasue god has said it is the right thing to do. Is that legal? CPS has made errors no doubt, I am not dismissing that. But how does this cult continue to break the law and nothing is done about it? But when CPS has maybe broke some laws, the cult members can sue? World news The lost boys, thrown out of US sect so that older men can marry more wivesJulian Borger in Washington The Guardian, Tuesday June 14 2005 Article historyAbout this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Tuesday June 14 2005 . It was last updated at 00:02 on June 14 2005. Up to 1,000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah officials claim. Many of these "Lost Boys", some as young as 13, have simply been dumped on the side of the road in Arizona and Utah, by the leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), and told they will never see their families again or go to heaven. The 10,000-strong FLDS, which broke away from the Mormon church in 1890 when the mainstream faith disavowed polygamy, believes a man must marry at least three women to go to heaven. The sect appeared to be in turmoil yesterday, after its assets were frozen last week and a warrant was issued in Arizona on Friday for the arrest of its autocratic leader, Warren Jeffs, for arranging a wedding between an underage girl and a 28-year-old man who was already married. Mr Jeffs is also being sued by lawyers for six of the Lost Boys for conspiracy to purge surplus males from the community, and by his nephew, Brent Jeffs, who accuses him of sexual abuse. Warren Jeffs' whereabouts yesterday were uncertain, but Utah officials said they believed he may be hiding in an FLDS compound near Eldorado, Texas, and they have contacted the Texan authorities. Some have voiced concern that an attempt to corner the sect leader could provoke a tragedy like the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian sect in Waco, Texas. Jim Hill, an investigator in Utah's attorney general's office, told The Guardian yesterday: "From everything I've been able to discern about Warren Jeffs, he is someone who is capable of some very different things. Whether that includes a mass suicide, I don't know. But I worry about it all the time." FLDS officials and the sect's lawyer, Rodney Parker, did not return calls seeking comment, but have previously argued that the Lost Boys were exiled from their communities because they were teenage delinquents who refused to keep the sect's rules. Mr Hill said although the boys may have been rebellious, their expulsion had more to do with the ruthless sexual arithmetic of a polygamous sect. "Obviously if you're going to have three to one or four to one female to male marriages, you're going to run out of females. The way of taking care of it is selectively casting out those you don't want to be in the religion," the investigator said. Dave Bills, who runs Smiles for Diversity, a foundation in Salt Lake City set up by an ex-FLDS member to look after the Lost Boys, said it was difficult to estimate their numbers because they had been scattered. But Mr Bills said the figures could be "as low as 400 and as high as 1,000". "They live every day like it's their last day and they don't care about anything," Mr Bills said. "They're told they won't have three wives, and they're doomed. But they all want to go back to their mums." One of the boys, Gideon Barlow, said he was expelled from a FLDS community in Colorado City, Arizona, for wearing short-sleeved shirts, listening to CDs and having a girlfriend. He said his mother rejected him on orders from the sect's leaders. "I couldn't see how my mum would let them do what they did to me," he told the Los Angeles Times. After his expulsion, he attempted to give her a Mother's Day present but she told him to stay away. "I am dead to her now," he said. Joanne Suder, a lawyer representing some of the Lost Boys in a case against the sect, said there had been "a conspiracy to excommunicate young boys to change the arithmetic so there are more young girls available for polygamy." She said some of the boys were simply driven out of town and dumped on the side of the road, leaving them traumatised. "I think anyone who finds themselves ousted from the only environment they ever knew and left in the middle of nowhere, and then is not allowed to be with their family and loved ones, and is led to believe that they can no longer go to heaven, is going to be troubled," Ms Suder told The Guardian. Polygamy is illegal in the US, but the authorities have been wary of confronting the FLDS for fear of provoking a siege or inviting political attacks for religious persecution. State investigators have also found it hard to persuade FLDS members to give evidence against Mr Jeffs. However, authorities in Utah and Arizona have recently increased the pressure on the sect's leader, Last week, a Utah judge froze FLDS assets, and the attorney's office in Mohave County, Arizona, charged Mr Jeffs for arranging a marriage between a 28-year-old married and a 16-year-old girl. If convicted he could serve up to two years in prison. Mr Jeffs inherited the leadership of the FLDS three years ago after the death of his father, Rulon. Since then, he has ruled its enclaves on the Arizona-Utah border, in Texas and Canada with fearsome discipline. At the age of 49 he has reportedly fathered at least 56 children by 40 wives. There have been no confirmed sightings of Mr Jeffs for over a year, but a photograph of a man resembling the sect leader was taken in January at the FLDS 1,700-acre Texas ranch near Eldorado. Randy Mankin, the editor of the local newspaper, the Eldorado Success, said: "People on the ranch don't have contact with the outside world. Two men only do whatever is necessary to do their business." What is the FLDS? The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints split off from the Mormon church in 1890, when the mainstream faith disavowed polygamy. The sect has communes in Utah, Arizona, Texas and Canada. It is the biggest polygamous group in the US. What does the FLDS believe? Polygamy allows a higher birth rate, increasing the "righteous" population. No man can go to heaven if he has less than three wives. The sect believes black people are inferior, the offspring of Cain. It teaches that America was first colonised by a lost tribe of Israelites and was visited by Jesus after his resurrection. Who runs the sect? Warren Jeffs, 49, inherited the leadership in 2002 after his father, Rulon, died. He has pursued a hard line against sect members deemed to fall short of "perfection", and has purged hundreds from the ranks, mostly men and boys. He is estimated to have 40 wives and 56 children. His whereabouts are uncertain but he is widely thought to be holed up in the FLDS compound outside El Dorado, Texas. Who are the "lost boys"? Among those purged from the sect are between 400 and 1,000 teenage boys and young men. The FLDS describes them as delinquents. Utah authorities say they were thrown out to make more girls available as wives for older men in the sect.