FLDS church teachings lead members into financial mire The Salt Lake Tribune/May 5, 2004 By Brooke Adams The year 2000 wasn't supposed to happen. As the millennium approached, many followers of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints felt encouraged to max out their credit cards and exhaust their personal loans. The end was near, FLDS leaders said, and the bills would never come due. "We were going to be lifted up and the wicked would be destroyed," said Pam Black, whose now deceased husband Martin did as told. "I remember him spending on his own teeth." Only the world didn't end and the bills are coming due. Consider this case: One Hildale family piled up $47,612 in credit card debt for "living expenses" before filing for bankruptcy late last year. "A lot of people got quite burned in the deal," said Ross Chatwin, a former member who is currently fighting the FLDS church's attempt to evict him from his home. "A lot went bankrupt, a lot of cards got cut off and vehicles repossessed." Getting by has always been a challenge for followers of this fundamentalist faith that dominates the twin cities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz. The faithful adhere to what they consider a purer version of Mormonism that includes plural marriage. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice in 1890 as a condition of statehood. Providing for the big families that result -- the average family size is 8.1 in Hildale, compared with 3.57 in Utah -- is a hardship for many residents. Jobs are limited and pay is low, a situation made worse by occasional "suggestions" that workers turn their paychecks over to the church for one project or another. Some business owners were making so many donations to the church they had trouble meeting other financial obligations, such as payroll. As 2000 neared, "People were counseled in their business decisions that the end was tomorrow," said Ezra Draper, who left the community last summer. "They would use cash on hand to progress the needs of the church, whatever request [FLDS leader Warren Jeffs] was making of them, because the big one was going to drop sooner or later. Instead of making 30-year plans, they were making three-month plans." Another impediment to getting ahead: All land is held by a church-owned trust, so residents are unable to get mortgages on property and have to build in a piecemeal fashion as money becomes available through earnings, credit or loans. It was all for naught for some men. Richard Holm, for example, used some money he borrowed from the Bank of Ephraim to fix up the home he was forced to leave in November. Holm says that over several decades he poured $700,000 into the home. In the past year, followers' limited means have been stretched even further by Jeffs' edict that adult men make monthly $1,000 tithes. Eternal salvation, as well as continued membership in the faith, depends on complying, the people are told. "It has always been this way, but it has gotten exceptionally bad over the past year," said Chatwin. "A lot of people, if Warren says come up with the money, they'll go borrow on a credit card without thinking about how they are going to pay it back." Such demands caused heated fights in Black's home. "I wanted to know why our family had to starve while he was supporting these priesthood men," said Black, a mother of 14. "It meant our whole paycheck, nearly everything we had." God, she was told, has provided. "We were told from the pulpit that food stamps were made for this people because we were God's chosen," said Black, who left the FLDS church in 1998 but still lives in the community. And so Black signed up, though she hated having to rely on the hand-out and dreaded the humiliating stares she got when shopping outside the community. "We wouldn't have survived without the food stamps," said Black. And neither, apparently, would many other families. In 2002-2003, the twin cities received just over $3 million in food stamps.
have you noticed not one person on here has supported this community's religious practices or belief system? not one person has been in support of polygamy? honestly, why would a man want 5 wives? 1 is bad enough.....my guess is you are young trendlover? probably watch Nancy Grace... you seem addicted to this one thread.
You say I seem addicted to this thread. I am very much interested in this subject of the thread. Ratboy, you have responded to this thread as much or more than me, Are you addicted to this thread too? Or are you interested in the topic so much that you want to respond as much as you have? Maybe you are young too , but I would not use that as evidence that your replys hold no substance.
I am going to sleep. So do not take my not responding right away to any new posts of yours ratboy as a sign of defeat. Just time for sleep. None of us know all the findings of the investigation yet. Maybe I will eat my words, maybe you will. But in my heart I do see a big scam with religious camoflauge.
Which just proves that radical Chrstsianity is the #1 threat to our freedoms. The fact that our so-called leaders follow this same dangerous should worry any sane person. If ever wonder why our world is being destroyed now it's due to radical islam vs. radical christianity. No surprise, two sides of the same coin! But those whole governmet psy-ops campaign just proves that consenting adults have little freedom in america. One "anonymous" phone cal and you've lost your kids.
Most kids have sex by age 12-15 these days, and many become pregnant. How is this not a crime for "us" but it is for "them"? At least they have an extended family to support the kids. Most other kids just visit the place where they use a Shop-Vac to suction out the unborn child. That's ok I guess. The message her is clear: unless you are a willing tax slave you're gonna get the Waco treatment. That's why this is inthe news 24/7. It's a clear message to us.
I'm sure neither rat nor I disagree with you too much on the apparent cult aspect of this group. I'm just saying the criminal law or the CPS machinery is a very blunt tool to deal with the issues these people present. If an older man convinces a young woman to marry him or have his children through trickery and deceit, is that a crime? Is it a crime if it is a sincere religious belief that happens to be at odds with most people's feelings? Is it relevant that the women have been isolated and not exposed to opposing views? All I'm saying is that the law has to be careful in these situations and not get caught up in a lynch mob atmosphere. If the welfare of the children is supposed to be the deciding principle, I have grave doubts that breaking up families and sending kids to fend for themselves in a dysfunctional and often abusive foster care system is in their best interests. I dare say that if you put 400 kids in foster care, more of them will end up getting abused there than at that compound. Particularly so when the kids, like these, are not street smart. If these women have been brainwashed, as you suggest, I don't like it any more than you do. I'm just not sure frankly what is the best way to deal with it. I'm pretty sure the approach the state took was not it though.
Teenage girls contracting STDs at alarming rate By Crystal Walker Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 at 7:05 p.m. One in four American teenage girls has had a sexually transmitted disease. That alarming number was released Tuesday by the Center for Disease Control. Researchers looked at 838 girls between the ages of 14 and 19. They found that half of them are sexually active..... http://www.wach.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=107453 __________________________________________ I have an idea.. let's mandate condoms for all grade school students!!! and if parents object.. we will CPS them and label them enemy combatants. i know just the judge in Texas that will order it.
The crime (from my point of view) is in witholding choices. Choices are denied to these women by the religion. How? From birth they are taught to multiply and be fruitful is what god is asking of them. God also has said a man shall take many wives. God has also said a women is to have one husband who will take many wives. This is their only choice in life and they willingly accept most of the time (becasue this is all they know) Then a man will pick his wives, and she will comply so she feels worthy in the eyes of god. And she will have babies with a man who was chosen for her when she is a teenager, and that man could be much older. And she complys simply becasue her right to choose has been scared out of her by the laws of god. So to me the crime is not polygamy, or pregnancy. The crime is a system that men have created (by choice) to serve their needs...but to make this system work to their favor and without resistance, they use fear of god, worthyness of god, law of god, and other tactics to make the women compliant and willing. I don't know if most 12 to 15 year olds in society outside of the compound are having sex as you say, I know some do but I don't know if most do, but if that is true I can only say that the ones who are having sex and are educated about possibilitys of disease and pregnancy will be using protection, or choosing abstinence The ones who have been sheltered about sex will be at the highest risk of unwanted pregnancy and disease. And I don't have statistics, but I would think the ones that do have sex are not having sex with a much older person who says they have to have sex with them becasue god wants it that way. Most likely they are having sex with people around their own age who have reached puberty and who also have curiositys and desires that come with puberty. And these more educated ones know that sex is not just for bearing children, but also a pleasurable expierence that is not a sin. As far as your point that at least the polygamist teenagers who have babies have an extended family who can support those children is not completely true. Polygamist familys do recieve welfare. I cut and pasted article in this thread with an interview of a women from a polygamist sect who I think had 14 children and was receiving state money. And Warren Jeffs wanted her family to give monthly money to the church. She was upset at why she had to give money when things were so hard for her to take care of so many children. And she was told by the church that "God will provide" So what is this? A religion that says have many, many children, then go to welfare for money becasue you need it and are eligible, but remember too that the outsiders are evil one..just get the welfare check. Then give me $1000.00 a month from that check. And when the women with all the children feels she cannot afford to give her money away because she has 14 children becasue god has said to multiply and be fruitful, so she obeyed, the church tells her yes give your money becasue god will provide. Scam camoflauged as religion yes? How can a women who chooses to be a prostitute to be paid for by a man who would like her services be considered a crime, but women in the cult are allowed to be raised to believe it is gods law that they have only one husband but their husband can have many wives? It seems to me that this religion is make possible sex from many women to a man by force of gods law. Who are the real criminals?