great!!!....i'm going to leave this on going argument in your hands as my personal representative ....i can;t type anymore and i have to get some work done.....great debate though and i would encourage AXE, STU and You to keep it going and to keep it civil like it has been....very refreshing
That is still an assertion you have not provided any evidence for. Even in religious based societies with religious based rules, I am not aware of any evidence that a god somehow handed over these set of rules to a man. To use moses as an example... how do we KNOW that god spoke to moses and that moses wasn't just some cook who heard voices and carved some stuff on stone plates? If some dude today, walked out of a cave behind my home with some stone tablets that he carved, and claimed that these are the NEWLY REVISED commandments spoken to HIM and HIM ALONE by GOD himself, he would be considered insane without some SERIOUS evidence to back up that extraordinary claim. Even relgious leaders would dismiss him outright. Yet we have a large group of people who happily ACCEPT the very SAME event in story book format by unknown authors. Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM peace axeman
When two people are involved they each have a different reality. Those realities are based on their thoughts, background, culture, and many other things making up that reality. But if only two are involved there is one more reality that is involved and that is the right reality. Either of the two human realities may be closer or farther away from the right one or maybe right on. Now the problem arises as to what the right reality is and where it came from or is coming from.
I would require the same standards of proof that our scientific community must provide for something to be accepted as true. If tomorrow I claimed to have successfully built a device which starts and maintains a cold fusion reaction which could be used to power entire cities "cleanly", what evidence would I be required to produce??? A claim that god spoke to only ME and gave me these commandments that ALL MEN everywhere should follow, is a far greater claim. Should this claim require even MORE evidence than would be required of me for my cold fusion claim? I hope this is an obvious yes. In the cold fusion experiment, I would have to reproduce the experiment for all to see. I would have to show other scientists how it's done and have them replicate my results. I would have to show my design to all the scientists and have them review my design and data and results. Now how could I prove that god gave me these new commandments? At the very least I would have to produce a video tape of the event. But even that would not be enough and certainly does not match the level of evidence I provided for my cold fusion experiment. People could claim it was a cool computer graphics hoax. The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread among man, and that all man should follow them. That I was official his spokeman from now on. This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do. Funny how this never happens. peace axeman
...I see...so according to you....Aristotle, socrates and say....Julius Ceaser never existed???? we have written works and first hand accounts of their actions, but since there is no kodak or video .....it's highly unlikely they actually did that?????
The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread among man, and that all man should follow them. That I was official his spokeman from now on. This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do. axeman ______________________________ My impression was that is exactly what Christ did. Didn't He say "How many times will you ask for a sign and still not believe?"
The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread among man, and that all man should follow them. That I was official his spokeman from now on. This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do. Funny how this never happens. Funny how we demand this proof or our creator...but assuming it did happen and only 1000 people saw it.....you would only believe if you saw, not take other's account...
That's not what i'm saying. We have evidence that these people existed, including personal artifacts from them. However, we don't have any written works that claim aristotle flew around the world in 10 seconds under his own power. In other words, I have not heard of any accounts of these men which contradict what is known as humanly possible or directly against what is known as possible in general. If you were to show me a diary of aristotle that claimed he was abducted by zeus and taken to heaven for a day, I would reject that claim outright based on the ratio of evidence to the grandness of the claim. peace axeman