do u know what the difference between wharton and NYU, columbia professors is? one group writes academic and "cnbc" type books, the second one works on wall street and teaches. there is a very good reason why wharton offers plain vanilla finance courses
wharton ranks consistently at the top because no other ivy league school grants an undergraduate business degree. as a matter of fact, very few undergraduate schools in general grant business degrees. like the winners of a division IV tournament calling themselves national champions when they haven't played any division V teams. no offense, just think a lot of wharton people should remember this.
I'm more than willing to concede that I don't know everything with regards to trading...I'm learning as I go...however, the point I was trying to make was I'm willing to bet that you've never been in any courses at any of these schools and so making the community college claim was a little out of left field. Also, given the fact that both of these schools are located in new york vs. philly would be a much more logical choice for people working on wall st. to teach at. Wharton doesn't have classes on friday so profs can commute although most of them do stuff for the government as compared to private industry. However you did hit the nail on the head w/ your fin 101 comment. I completely agree with you on the lack of undergrad bus. programs (most people here don't...people in the college here hate them for it too), but I'd say other ivy's econ degrees can be pretty comparable in terms of exposure to finance/ accounting (plus schools like Texas, Michigan, Cal Berkley) if thats what you wanna do. Brad
First of all I NEVER EVER claimed to have done investment banking and if you really searched my posts you would know that I was trying to get into it and had a great opportunity BEFORE I experienced working with them for a couple months and saw what it was REALLY like, not the BS you get preached in business school. I decided to keep the graphics job cause it pays very good hourly money and proceeded to save up and go for prop trading. BTW, as a side note, several first year bankers would ask us how they could get our job once they found out how much we made per hour. I worked for a year with the Consumer Products Group at UBS, I worked very closely with all the levels. I sat right next to the office of the MD, he was totally bi-polar. YES sometimes I did do their job simply because they kinda trickle it down to you. Not that I cared much, they paid for my meals everyday and it was interesting & easy for me. At a slightly lower quality, but still big IB, I've had to explain to a banker that a company reports earnings 4 times a year so it's not possible to show earnings graphed every month of the year. Most of them are not too bright, book smarts do not transfer into common sense. Second of all Lehman TRADING DESK is very different from INVESTMENT BANK. So why don't you learn how it works before you come out trying to put other people down. 2 very separate departments, and only the best contacts or top of the class Ivy league degrees would have gotten you into Lehman trading desk or even most of the top tier trading firms because there was a street wide hiring freeze in 2002. Third of all, I can go get a job as an IB at Deutsche Bank without a problem since a good old HS friend of mine is a VP there. I made a clear choice not to get into the industry based on my observations, experience and ppl I know in the industry. I felt that I would have done it if I had the exposure earlier because there are a number of skills & preparations you can take that would make the trip a lot easier and move you to the top a lot faster. The younger you are when you start, the easier it will cause the human body cannot handle that type of stress with age. Everything I say about the industry my friend pretty much agrees with. IB at the core is just Sales, it's just one big game to push nonsensical deals at companies and squeeze out the fees. It's financial engineering and maintenance of contacts. It is in a sense, a scam, and my friend totally agrees. I've asked him why so many first years are not too competent when there are so many applicants and his reply was is that they just hire a lot of first years, use them up and send them off to grad school. He always complains about the idiots under him and how he has to straighten them out. As for himself, he is pretty much burned out and kinda confused if he wants to keep going at it. Always asking me to find him a chick, the guy makes 200-300k a year (plus bonus) and still can't find himself a date. The ones that make it in the business are smart, workaholics and willing to make huge sacrifices (social, emotional and physical). If you can't handle your MD yelling & cursing at your for smth that is not really your fault, you ain't gonna make it. If you can't stay up for 3 days & nights straight to squeeze out a deal, you won't make it. If you won't cancel your trip back home for Thanksgiving or Chrimstmas because smth just came up, you won't make it. You have to LOVE Investment Banking 24/7 which is exactly why MDs who already made millions and are making a ton of money still come in at 6 AM and leave at 6 PM even though they could have retired years ago. Watching these guys trying to make non IB conversation is hilarious, they are almost empty outside their work. So before you try to talk sh*t and selectively pick out what I posted, as well as put words in my mouth, you better know WTF it is YOU are talking about since you obviously do not.
So basically, you're not willing to do the work, and can only get a job through a tenuous HS connection? One word describes you -- LOSER.
No you f**king idiot, I was not and am not willing to make those sacrifices. It was the first time I ever said to myself that money is not everything. I know myself and I would not have been able to take that stress and abuse, especially not the health effects (I'm very health conscious). I would not have gone in to get my 2-3 years and go off to grad school, if I was gonna do it it would be to get to the top. Had it been 1-2 years earlier that I got to see the real picture, I would have prepared myself properly and went head on but that was not the case. And I was offered to join the Industrial Group at UBS in my first 2 months while I was still in my last semester. I quickly made good acquiantence with an Associate (now VP) just by showing what I know (more than most of his subordinates apparently). I made some questions & comments about an Allied Waste deal they were doing and he recognized the skills. I was very gung ho about it till I got more experience with the bankers and spoke with more of them (mainly associates). It became very obvious to me that the turnover is not from firings, it is from ppl burning out and leaving the business for very good reasons. People make I-banking to be this esoteric job when it is not. It is much much easier to get first year into an I-bank than a sales trading desk. It's not what it's portrayed to be. Just like trading. So go do a cannonball of the Empire State, you'll be more useful to the world that way.
You're like that angry guy who leaves the club complaining, "That was so weak! I'm never coming back here again! Clubbing is stupid!" because no girls would talk to you in there. Now you're hating all investment banks because no one wanted to hire you even though you were desperately trying to get into Lehman's door. It's not all hook-ups. If you really have qualifications, it would be transparent, but you were just a graphics artist. LOL
Hydro--OK and what do you do now? Drive a cab or night watchman? Or is also too much stress for you? Where do they find these people?
community college was in regard to the breadth of finance classes offered for the MBA students. obviously wharton is a world class university and definitely top 5 in the world, overall a better school than NYU and Columbia. I simply dont agree with people saying that wharton is the #1 school for Finance. wharton's phd in finance program might be better than the ones in NYC for someone going into academic research and teaching, but for an average MBA student, NYU and Columbia electives and faculty in finance is in a league of their own.