My goodness, if I was a new trader and reading past several posts, I would give up before I started. What I learned in my first year of learning chart reading was all I ever needed but didn't know that and then spent next fourteen years of what didn't work for trading and next 23 years on making money management rules of how to keep it or not lose it easily. First thing in trading to learn is charting, it is your roadmap, then find places to buy gas/restroom/pizza/ motel 6-they leave the light on when you get lost or in other words "Money Management". You all are concentrating on a problem that would not exist if you all would test the crap out of your methods of:1) time before trade might happen, 2) entry, 3) during the trade is on and 4) exit. But everyone can't wait to start trading, you all are like Robin Williams in movie "RV", start driving huge RV and don't have any idea how to drive it, maintain it, Oh God that was funny dealing with septic tank, LOL. But most are worried about your mind and having problems, you might be causing problems that might not exist if you spend more time back testing and developing a thorough Trading Plan. I have tried to show what can be had in an hour of ES, have posted Crude Oil trading in other journals, I love chop and I love trend, risk next to nothing and make consistent profits till the 50 tick exit can be made. Huge Hint: How do you tie your shoes?, please describe to me how to tie your shoes, you have done it thousands of times, right? Harder to explain how to do it than just doing it? That is trading, you see your one pattern of getting in, make it simple, pick one way to get in, learn when not to take signal, learn to manage the trade and learn the getting out. Practice till you get it down like tying your shoe. You will do it automatically, then you don't need to know what your mind is telling you. You all are developing problems cause in back of your mind you know your system is weak in areas or the whole thing. If you have to think of what to do next when you in a trade, YOU LOST.
I've not read them all, but I've read a lot of them, and as far as posts at ET go, that very well may be the best one I've come across.
If I remember right you said you used Douglas's books for door stops. And here I'm quoting him. You are completely practical Handle, and I agree with you... especially in that your analysis sets you free to just do what you say above. I had training as a scientist, yet somehow the analysis I was doing was actually making me worse. I think I'm beginning to understand why... and when Jas asked me about how some of the above posts affected my trading my plan, entries, exits... I replied that those are not directly what all those posts above (that would scare off a new trader) are about. I can't speak for Jas, but when I used to do bar by bar analysis... I almost always traded worse. I finally recognized that and stopped. And I started a process of analysis that is more like the kind of straight forward analysis you are describing above. It's not a secret. I'm finding now that I had some crappy ideas, beliefs, misunderstandings that caused problems... exactly like you are saying. They somehow kept me from doing the obvious and practical process you are describing. It is really puzzling in hindsight. And I'm not claiming to have worked all of them out. However, listening to Douglas is helping me see a whole package and some priorities from his point of view. I can get that it is not your kind of thing, and not something many might be interested in. Once I had the process of observe, back and forward test, sim and live trade with my stats carrying across from step to step (and if not, going back and figuring out why)... I actually & finally could make a real plan. But I discovered that I still screwed up at times, especially when I was tired, in ways that didn't make sense. The more I actually trade a plan, it kind of makes me learn about myself... right now I'm realizing beliefs and misunderstandings I've had about trading, probabilities, order flow, whatever -- and ways to correct them.
Part of us think it deficiency in the approach / methodology - deficiency in validating the approach / methodology Part of us think it a deficiency in trading the approach / methodology consistently (absolutely zero deviation) The back and forth is getting J no closer... and likely confusing the shit out of things (do this.., no do that..., try this..., no try that) My personal desire is to see him successful - period So to that end ===================== J, Please clear this crap up Sir In your opinion: Is your approach / methodology viable - or not..., does it require additional dissection to make it so or... Do you trade your approach / methodology - consistently (absolutely no deviation).., or not ================== If..., in your opinion - it a combination Then we need to separate.., distinguish..., and focus on..., one..., or the other Fix that first - then focus.., and fix - the other The goal is to get you trading consistently..., ultimately successfully - fuck what we think ===================== This circular bullshit is making my head hurt - more importantly - it getting J no closer I have much respect for each of you.., and your contribution's in the thread - but damn let's get on the same page J..., tell us what page that would be - please RN
RN, Back at you in the a.m. I was writing up a response to cut and paste and will finish tomorrow. Short answer. I think my beliefs are fine. Just need a couple specifics in the plan to iron out. The other day there were two trades where I was long exited and should have reversed but instead stayed flat. I know in the past I've made that flip with out hesitation. That got me thinking, why ??? Why did I miss that ? Is that a belief issue ? I don't think so. The times I've progressed as a trader is when I figured out these plan specifics. Certainly others may disagree or have a different experience. Actually i think that answers it pretty well. Will review my answer in a.m. Kind of a crazy day. "Life" interrupted my plan for hours of study. Things returning to normal. Now some quality time with the wife. Might watch some episodes of "Frasier" on Netflix
I said I never learned anything from Douglas, had learned much before reading his book or pain felt from losing, Van Tharp manuals I used as door stops. I still have Douglas book in storage but burned Tharp's manual and Brooks book. No sense in keeping books I can't understand or believe in the writer. By all means if you believe in an Author and it helps you. I have always had students do little bit differently in doing bar by bar analysis, had them define, give it a name, so going through entire day of one minute bars, you can come up with 50 names of bars, so would spend entire month doing 8 hours a day on same chart to come up with names for each bar, then they would go back in time to look for same bars to see patterns, at time they were doing this, ALL said it was waste of time and didn't understand why they were doing it, but slowly they saw reasons that some bars have high degree of repeating when they are within a pattern and many bars have no percentage of working or not working. Especially when they are in chop and comparing volume in chop. It is like building a 110 story building, everyone wants to put up the flag on top floor, but if you have no clue on the whys of each floor in relationship to next floor or floor 30 floors below, maybe you can't have a 50 feet flagpole and only 20 feet. Can you run up 30 flights of stairs as fast as first story as the last story? Same when trading, stress kills off your energy fast, so when you get tired, you can't memorize as well. I put all I can in hour for ES, by end of that I am tired and time to walk away. **For me, I rather have an outstanding well back tested Trading Plan that I put my faith in than concentrating on the why I don't have faith in my Trading Plan and don't know what to do next or why I am losing after doing well in morning.
@Hooti first off, THANK YOU for taking the time to posting this extensively. Your effort was very much appreciated. Your post is very insightful with some bigger than golden nuggets hidden within. A lot of people that want to pursue a career in trading focus a lot of time and effort in creating a plan. A training plan is very important. However, in my humble opinion, learning how to manipulate your mind, is a unique skill that most cannot achieve. The reason for this is very simple. Most people believe they ARE their mind, when in reality the mind is nothing but another organ/extension attending to the physical body. Just like your hands and legs can be manipulated for various tasks,so does your mind have to be manipulated to perform how YOU want it. Trading is a psychological based profession. Control your mind and you control the market. Keep on posting your beautifully dissected insights; they posses a very unique angle that most traders fail to look through. Ty.
Thank you Alpha, I really appreciate your post. I know with absolute clarity that I am not my thoughts; interesting you would mention that. I apologize for my part of the headache RN. I have a minor in psych and really liked taking psych tests. It’s been pointed out that less than 1 person in a thousand puts their world together the way I do. This just is, so I’m used to it (but I don’t think it usually gives people a headache! LOL). Will try to keep posting but be more on target… your point is important.
So here's kind of a recap of where I'm at: I've have studied my beliefs. I've seen how my plan did not necessarily match the realities of the market. So, I changed my plan. I've learned about my inner critic and how it impacts my feelings & response to mistakes , losses and wins. Then I learned to talk to it and calm it down. I've examined my beliefs on confidence vs arrogance and how that impacts my mindset. I've learned and thought about how self-image always equals performance. I've examined and still examine why I move my targets and the beliefs around that. It's all helped make me a better trader. But the things that seem to have had a greater impact as far as progressing have been when I studied my plan and made sure I really understood it. Was I missing entries because of a belief about fear or uncertainty of outcome ? Maybe partly, but mostly it was unclear rules. So I made sure I revised and wrote out and knew exactly what I was looking for and the triggers that would signal entering. That's the starting point for Douglas' exercise on trading an edge like a casino. Clear objective rules. As I said previously, some of my context analysis was intuitive. Now that i'm trying to make my trading consistent and boring i'm over thinking it. So i'm thinking I might need clearer context rules. There's also the thought that sometimes I just need to make my best analysis, pull the trigger and let the management rules take care of it. Yes, I see the contradiction. Will be interesting see how it resolves. Actually I don't think it's that difficult a fix. As far as stats, I do have them by set up type on my actual results vs if I'd strictly followed my management/exit rules. Both have shown an edge. I have not done the record keeping recently as I've mentioned previously. I'll be on SIM next week. Will do an update likely at end of week. O.T. Our 14 year dog will probably be spending her last day with us on Tuesday. That's dog #2 since I've started this journal. Yeah, I need to get my shit together and wrap this up.
Losing a Family member - My heart goes out to You and your Family It going to be a tough week.., regardless - prepare diligently.., and deliberately Routine..., consistency..., discipline - is the goal Mkt is the ultimate psyc test - pass it - you can teach the damn class..., and the instructors.., and the counselors As for apologizing - absolutely no need My Friend - this your journey - it goes where you say Just trying to ensure we're on the same path..., at the same intersection..., headed in the same direction - as YOU RN