Let's put it this way, do you really think someone making seven figures a year gives a crap about a newbie trader? Even if you are on his team, it is highly unlikely you will get any real education simply because whatever little commission you generate for him in a year is hardly his P&L for a single position. Sure, you will get some pre-canned lectures, ala Tony Oz / Don Bright style, but if you think it is going to ease the learning curve, it is not gonna. A lot of firms will promise you the training and education, in reality it has always been every man for himself and will continue to be. Also, the rule of thumb is, if someone tells you that you will be sitting next to a half a million a year trader, divide his number by two and you probably get his actual P&L, every single firm include my own blows up trader stats. I am absolutely sick and tired of that so I made a policy regardless of how I do, I will show anyone my YTD P&L or P&L on any given day for that matter, and I will explain every single trade if they want me to. I have found newer traders a LOT more willing to give and share than experienced ones. I am not saying you can not learn anything from experienced ones, but chances are you will be ignored. Great traders do not teach, period. I get to see a seven digit trader trade everyday, the guy trades 70 stocks a day and micro manages 3-5 in the end. Another seven digit guy will be in every single news stock (you name it, ENE, EPG, FIC, DYN) and trades 10000 shares of something that moves a point every two prints. Neither one of them is of any use to me, watching the way they trade. I have improved a lot more watching 100K a year guys go at it (at least when I was newer) It is the traders who make the methods, not the other way around. For people trying to rub it in, we will see how I do this year. Even with my last year's stats I know for a fact that I was on par with at least two chat room vendors charging $200-$300 a month, and I do it for free.
Hitman it seems to me the bolder your statements the more wrong you are. I am no longer with the firm in which I became profitable as a daytrader but I was trained by a guy who made solid six figures and the next year he was almost at seven by the time I left that firm in the middle of the year. He got an eighth of a cent a share off of me for a year and he also developed an office where he trained many people who made much more money than you in their first year and half. (Granted the market was easier). So while you are to be commended for your profitable trading last year you should not be so presumptuous about other traders and their training abilities. This is just one example of a few that I know of and I am sure there are hundreds of others.
Try 2001, enough said. I don't care what they did in 1999/2000, 2001 was the true test, and 2002 won't be any easier.
Let's put it this way, do you really think someone making seven figures a year gives a crap about a newbie trader? I thought Stockk and the gang were trained by a trader making 7 figures. You seem to think very highly of your team, they must've learned something from their former manager.
"Let's put it this way, do you really think someone making seven figures a year gives a crap about a newbie trader? " This is probably true as you say for experienced traders - but I have seen young traders give making seven figures give alot of themselves. "Sure, you will get some pre-canned lectures, ala Tony Oz / Don Bright style, but if you think it is going to ease the learning curve, it is not gonna. " I _STRONGLY_ disagree. I do not know Tony Oz, but I do know Don and Bob Bright - I took their training course. All I can tell you is that what you are saying is _ILLOGICAL_, and if you think of it from the point of view of your own ambitions at Worldco, you would have come to the same conclusions. Think about it, the only way that they can make decent money on a trader is if the trader is successful, i.e., he is trading decent size, or is trading enough to take a lot of small clips during the day. Therefore, it is to _THEIR_ADVANTAGE_ to make their traders profitable, otherwise, how can they continue to grow their business, or for that matter, how could you? If you study the math of John Nash, you will understand this, tho I think you get it already, intuitevely... Although I agree with you that Don and Bob aren't likely to give away their "best" strategies, I believe that they give _RAW_ newbies a solid foundation in which to begin their education and to find the methods that best suit the traders personality. In addition, their continuing education is geared toward identifying when market conditions have changed so that their traders are warned of when momentum trading is better than scalping than pairs, etc. "...in reality it has always been every man for himself and will continue to be." I agree with this, but, I am curious, how can you make such implications with only having been at one firm? Conviction is one thing, but this singlemindedness seems rash at best... "...every single firm include my own blows up trader stats." Although I would not doubt this, again, is this your experience, or are you, like a parrot, just repeating what you heard? "I am absolutely sick and tired of that so I made a policy regardless of how I do, I will show anyone my YTD P&L or P&L on any given day for that matter, and I will explain every single trade if they want me to. " Bravo! I think many could learn _TRADING_ from you, and guess what, if you want to grow your business, you are correct in making them successful by explaining you thoughts to them. Geez, sounds like education to me. "I have found newer traders a LOT more willing to give and share than experienced ones. " My experience as well, though not written in stone... "Great traders do not teach, period. " I believe that this is a statement more about you than it is about great traders... Think about it... "I get to see a seven digit trader trade everyday, the guy trades 70 stocks a day and micro manages 3-5 in the end. Another seven digit guy will be in every single news stock (you name it, ENE, EPG, FIC, DYN) and trades 10000 shares of something that moves a point every two prints. Neither one of them is of any use to me, watching the way they trade. I have improved a lot more watching 100K a year guys go at it (at least when I was newer)" Geez, they are of _NO_ "use" to you. Are you sure? "...For idiots trying to rub it in, we will see how I do this year. Even with my last year's stats I know for a fact that I was on par with at least two chat room vendors charging $200-$300 a month, and I do it for free." It must be late in NY - your mind is running all over the place... nitro
Fact: They were paying more than twice the commission, getting half the payout of what our firm offered them. None of them were net positive. And as of now two out of three traders who have been trading actively ARE net positive. (We will see how the other two perform once they get started) I don't take credit for the low rates we offer, but yes, it makes a much more significant difference than training. SK can comment on the training they received better than I. As far as the skills they came with, as I mentioned before I plain don't like the idea of new traders playing with real time filters, but they do have all the basic tape reading and technical analysis down, as I would expect from people who have been trading for a few months. Still, if I make a poll I am sure they will tell you that everything is better in Worldco.
my trading history??? Dottom, True ( well kinda, that Mr.T made 7 figures, but from what I heard, he made that in 2000, trading a hedge fund ) teaches us how to trade, but do you think if he was doing a good job, we will be here? I don't know about how he treated you but I don't get more than a hi and bye from him. And when I tried to ask him a question, he would say "Is that important?" I am like why would I ask you if it was not? lol. I used to IM him in the middle of the trading day, to bounce ideas off of him and after a while he won't even accept my IM! lol The bottom line is he will like you if you are profitable and making money for him. Don't believe otherwise!! Plus he might make 7 figures this year, I would estimate 40% of which will come from all the commissions he gets from guys trading there!!!!
In the opening month of the year, you can not afford to make monumental mistakes, 01/02 and 01/04 were super size opportunities, and instead of converting on easy day's, I lost a combined $1700. Now, with 5 games left in the pay period I may be facing my first check-less pay period since September. I was totally shut down today and had to swallow my third loss of the month, 19400 shares each way on 6 of 12 shooting, +396 before commissions, -202 after, 3 bullets. During my winning streak, I set the tone early in every game with a couple of decent trades off the open. Last 5 games, I had to play against a deficit 4 out of 5 games and really struggled to get anything done between 10-11. I noticed that I had a lot of success with gap-fills so starting tommorrow I am going to experiment with The Edge's open strategy (Don Bright's open journal, The Edge offered an actual calculation of fair value and it made a lot of sense to me which peaked my interest, I have done some research of my own and added my own twist to it), I will reduce the size and number of shots I take during the first 15 minutes and try to play those gap-fills instead. I will be doing 300-500 shares and given the liquidity of those stocks it is highly unlikely that I get hit too hard on them, especially with my "if it ticks against me then I am out" mentality off the open. Our software can cancel the order if the open print doesn't match the limit price, so all I have to do is to react to the filled order log and act accordingly. I am confident that I will at least not be blown out of the water trading this strategy, and I like the way it allows you to "warm-up" before the real trading day begins. I may get Tradestation Pro to start some more technical research. Quite honestly, you will never ever be able to learn anything in trading without giving up a lot of blood and sweat, I am not trying to re-invent any wheels, but I need to add some depth to my play book. Facing a $1500 deficit for the month, it is a strong motivation to spend some more time in the lab. Pre-Market: Airline upgrades and declining oil price. XAL ran up three days in a row and it was a trap. 9:30: Bulleted BHI/GSF and all was well until they all of a sudden whacked out what I thought to be big offers and spreaded 25 cents against me. I covered and went long in WFT but when I realized it was just a scare, instead of selling I accidentally bought more. I lost a quarter on 1000 share's worth of WFT as a result and it hurted. Quickly shorted GSF and BHI on the way down and recovered some of the losses, as while I could not get my commissions and bullet cost out I at least didn't give money to the market on those. Very choppy energy sectors and all of a sudden I saw a big move on SOX and I quickly went for AMD, just scored 10 cents before the market ran out of gas and I had to get out. 10:00: Bulleted LEN on home builder sell-off and scored half a point, but it wasn't easy to hold and I made just $160 after commissions as I churned 4300 shares each way on that, very poor efficiency but it really looked like it could squeeze in my face any time. 12:00: SOX made a new high and I went for LSI, couldn't get any good move out of him. Tried JBL and it went nowhere. Broke even in those two trades. Tried KSS but while it provided an incredible morning pop it didn't do anything in the afternoon. 3:00: Churned CCU/TGT, wish I was more confident on TGT because the tape felt really strong, it only moved 10 cents anyway above .50 so it wasn't like I left much on the table.
"(Don Bright's open journal, The Edge offered an actual calculation of fair value and it made a lot of sense to me which peaked my interest, I have done some research of my own and added my own twist to it)" Did hitman just get hit by lightning? Keep this up and you might really be dangerous. nitro
Hitman, a piece of advice... if it aint broke, dont fix it... your tape reading is JUST FINE... you have gone through what is called a drawdown... nothing more, nothing less.