JACK HERSHEY METHOD EXPOSED AS FRAUD! *Debated*

Discussion in 'Automated Trading' started by bwolinsky, Dec 13, 2008.

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  1. I was wondering the same thing.
     
    #101     Dec 16, 2008
  2. Nasdoork is just another multi-alias wank job. I swear, the guy has more aliases than there are Jack Hershey followers ...

    A pity all they do is come on here and spout on about how they never have to prove anything, while claiming to have added a twist and a turn to Jack's teachings and releasing the spigot of ever flowing money-from-heaven.
     
    #102     Dec 16, 2008
  3. LOL, that is kinda funny. :)

    Right back atcha bro, right back atcha. At least I stick to one alias, while everyone else around here has a whole stable full of'em. :p
     
    #103     Dec 16, 2008
  4. Hi, guys. I've concluded it's a poor Risk adjusted system. No secret there, however, I cannot for certain say it is unprofitable. Based on the 15 Minute .SPX at 10% position from the only data that has complete volume info going back to 8/11/2008.

    If anybody has an ASCII DATA File with O H L C VOLUME TIME DATE SYMBOL attachments, I can have a more complete backtest. This is suggestive of something sutainable:

    Long + Short
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $199,259.75
    Net Profit $52,259.75
    Net Profit % 35.55%
    Annualized Gain % 139.84%
    Exposure 0.83%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($4.46)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 28
    Avg Profit/Loss $1,866.42
    Avg Profit/Loss % 0.53%
    Avg Bars Held 8.14

    Winning Trades 15
    Winning % 53.57%
    Gross Profit $139,424.20
    Avg Profit $9,294.95
    Avg Profit % 2.44%
    Avg Bars Held 7.53
    Max Consecutive 5

    Losing Trades 13
    Losing % 46.43%
    Gross Loss ($87,164.45)
    Avg Loss ($6,704.96)
    Avg Loss % -1.67%
    Avg Bars Held 8.85
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($48,564.80)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/15/2008
    Max Drawdown % -24.04%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/15/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 12,729.51
    RAR 16,757.47
    Profit Factor 1.5996 The PF is where I conclude that the system has some deficiencies
    Recovery Factor 1.0761
    Payoff Ratio 1.4597
    Sharpe Ratio 2.0491 It's not bad, but I'm concerned that we don't have enough data.
    Ulcer Index 9.8221
    WL Error Term 5.149
    WL Reward Ratio 27.1581
    Luck Coefficient 2.5814
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 0.9781
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.0313


    Long
    Long Only
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $150,843.53
    Net Profit $3,843.53
    Net Profit % 2.61%
    Annualized Gain % 7.69%
    Exposure 0.52%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($2.40)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 15
    Avg Profit/Loss $256.24
    Avg Profit/Loss % 0.02%
    Avg Bars Held 8.33

    Winning Trades 7
    Winning % 46.67%
    Gross Profit $61,912.40
    Avg Profit $8,844.63
    Avg Profit % 2.15%
    Avg Bars Held 7.14
    Max Consecutive 2

    Losing Trades 8
    Losing % 53.33%
    Gross Loss ($58,068.87)
    Avg Loss ($7,258.61)
    Avg Loss % -1.85%
    Avg Bars Held 9.38
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($45,560.73)
    Max Drawdown Date 11/21/2008
    Max Drawdown % -24.55%
    Max Drawdown % Date 11/21/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 1,119.99
    RAR 1,484.43
    Profit Factor 1.0662
    Recovery Factor 0.0844
    Payoff Ratio 1.1631
    Sharpe Ratio 0.0471 I think the long side is horrible. It's my opinion this method should only be used for short sells
    Ulcer Index 14.678
    WL Error Term 4.943
    WL Reward Ratio 1.556
    Luck Coefficient 2.9359
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 0.4677
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.5054

    Short Only
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $195,416.22
    Net Profit $48,416.22
    Net Profit % 32.94%
    Annualized Gain % 126.79%
    Exposure 0.39%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($2.06)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 13
    Avg Profit/Loss $3,724.32
    Avg Profit/Loss % 1.13%
    Avg Bars Held 7.92

    Winning Trades 8
    Winning % 61.54%
    Gross Profit $77,511.79
    Avg Profit $9,688.97
    Avg Profit % 2.70%
    Avg Bars Held 7.88
    Max Consecutive 3

    Losing Trades 5
    Losing % 38.46%
    Gross Loss ($29,095.58)
    Avg Loss ($5,819.12)
    Avg Loss % -1.40%
    Avg Bars Held 8
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($21,205.58)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/14/2008
    Max Drawdown % -12.43%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/14/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 28,816.65
    RAR 32,905.19
    Profit Factor 2.664
    Recovery Factor 2.2832
    Payoff Ratio 1.9339
    Sharpe Ratio 5.6142 A Very good system for just the short
    Ulcer Index 3.6959
    WL Error Term 2.67
    WL Reward Ratio 47.4884
    Luck Coefficient 1.9933
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 1.3821
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.0227


    What should we conclude? Hershey appears to use some discretion in his system. The long side is not effective in its current form.

    This is the final version of the Jack Hershey Method. The Shell Programs for indicators were taken from wl4.wealth-lab.com. This Jack Hershey Method 15 Minute Script needs more backtesting. I encourage anyone with the data to backtest on 15 minute bars with ES.

    Is it profitable? Yes, for this time period. Further research is needed to say yes or no. In its current form, this is what Jack Hershey has been writing about, through a pawn called ScottD.

    See below for what I consider to be a working version of Jack Hershey's Method. If you don't have WL, there some caveats I should add. 28 trade backtests are normally not indicative of a profitable or unprofitable system. I shall say the result is intriguing, but my limitation is the fact that I'm missing volume data on the ES. This is only an approximation from the .SPX that only has data since 8/11/2008.

    This script has been elusive for at least 10 years now, and has been unlocked. Partial credit is due for the indicators coded by Spydertrader, who never knew the real system. This version is profitable since 8/11/2008 with the results listed above.

    I welcome anyone that wants to continue rather than stating opinions, to simply post the results they get in WL on 15 minute bars.

    Adustments that will need to be made if you want to use it for 5 minute bars is to adjust the times it accepts orders.

    This should lay it to rest, but there's much more debate to happen. The point is, anyone who wants to say anyway or the other will need to test it themselves. That means opening up Fidelity Accounts just to get WLP. When you get WLP up, drop me a line, and I'll rewrite it for buying SDS and SSO.

    Anyway, don't have much else to say. Is it fraud? Fraud in the sense that he claims to make unsubstantiated profits with the system. As we can see, it's not profitable enough to turn $10k into $1m in 180 days.

    As I say, I have better systems, like this one:

    Long + Short
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $309,396.85
    Net Profit $162,396.85
    Net Profit % 110.47%
    Annualized Gain % 34.59%
    Exposure 3.15%

    Cash Interest $17,278.83
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($7.50)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 68
    Avg Profit/Loss $2,388.19
    Avg Profit/Loss % 1.18%
    Avg Bars Held 3.1

    Winning Trades 59
    Winning % 86.76%
    Gross Profit $216,250.91
    Avg Profit $3,665.27
    Avg Profit % 1.89%
    Avg Bars Held 2.97
    Max Consecutive 14

    Losing Trades 9
    Losing % 13.24%
    Gross Loss ($71,132.88)
    Avg Loss ($7,903.65)
    Avg Loss % -3.48%
    Avg Bars Held 4
    Max Consecutive 1

    Max Drawdown ($39,203.44)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/9/2008
    Max Drawdown % -12.61%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/9/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 960.2811
    RAR 1,098.85
    Profit Factor 3.0401
    Recovery Factor 4.1424
    Payoff Ratio 0.5417
    Sharpe Ratio 4.1097
    Ulcer Index 2.1549
    WL Error Term 2.455
    WL Reward Ratio 14.0894
    Luck Coefficient 8.4552
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 2.3167
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.0497

    but if you want to improve on the script below, I'm sure there's a possibility it could do better.

    Good luck.


    \/
     
    #104     Dec 16, 2008
  5. Thanks again bwolinsky,

    As you can see, the Hershey Cultists get up in arms when a basic backtest and analysis of his stated trading paradigms are investgiated by disinterested third parties and reported on, and they go around acting as if Jack were being persecuted (LOL).

    At last you have shown under what conditions it could be profitable, you would think with their ... fanatical dedication to the man they would be more than willing to go you one better.
     
    #105     Dec 16, 2008
  6. Come on now ... do you think for one minute that if The Hershey Way were even 1/10th as profitable as stated on this website, these people would be reacting like they are?#!? :confused:

    I don't think so.

    No worries ... common sense never got in the way of reason in these parts.
     
    #106     Dec 16, 2008
  7. Yeah, it's bizarre to me. But, in everybody's defense, nobody actually had the system until a few days ago.

    (I can say I beat Harvard grads to the punch, too).

    I find it weird that people didn't pound away at Jack until we had his system. It took some pawn or plant or whatever he was called ScottD to write Jack's system in tradestation. Because I've worked in both, it was quite a simple matter to interpret the easylanguage into WL.

    I've asked him (Jack) several times for ironclad rules. He apparently has some mechanical methods, but in the current thread introduced some kind of objective intepretation without etched in stone rules, which means the system is not mechanical.

    And yeah, I'm as third party as it gets, and since I've posted verified 3rd party systems for years, this one was no biggie. The stupidest part was ScottD initiating the conversation, and there isn't any clear connection how he knew what the conditions were, either.
     
    #107     Dec 16, 2008
  8. Shit! I did something wrong, when I was looking at ScottD's versions he stated that the volume of 1 bar ago need to be above 20000 contracts. In WL, this is actually on the current bar, instead of the bar-1 that I used. Goddamnit. Anyway, it's actually one of the most profitable backtests I've ever seen. The other issue I did not understand was the timing. I messed up the time. It allowed a trade to buy at 4 pm, which is a nono. I found that by making the times for purchase or short before 1545, increased results SUBSTANTIALLY!

    Check out the new version's results:
    Long + Short
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $270,945.74
    Net Profit $123,945.74
    Net Profit % 84.32%
    Annualized Gain % 480.47%
    Exposure 0.71%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($4.46)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 25
    Avg Profit/Loss $4,957.83
    Avg Profit/Loss % 1.19%
    Avg Bars Held 7.92

    Winning Trades 14
    Winning % 56.00%
    Gross Profit $184,800.42
    Avg Profit $13,200.03
    Avg Profit % 3.14%
    Avg Bars Held 8
    Max Consecutive 5

    Losing Trades 11
    Losing % 44.00%
    Gross Loss ($60,854.69)
    Avg Loss ($5,532.24)
    Avg Loss % -1.28%
    Avg Bars Held 7.82
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($39,285.55)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/10/2008
    Max Drawdown % -19.39%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/10/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 54,269.91
    RAR 67,325.18
    Profit Factor 3.0367
    Recovery Factor 3.155
    Payoff Ratio 2.4468
    Sharpe Ratio 10.6932
    Ulcer Index 3.9387
    WL Error Term 3.81
    WL Reward Ratio 126.1085
    Luck Coefficient 2.6941
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 1.7532
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.0082


    Long Only
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $211,976.70
    Net Profit $64,976.70
    Net Profit % 44.20%
    Annualized Gain % 186.54%
    Exposure 0.54%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($2.56)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 14
    Avg Profit/Loss $4,641.19
    Avg Profit/Loss % 1.12%
    Avg Bars Held 9.14

    Winning Trades 7
    Winning % 50.00%
    Gross Profit $107,144.11
    Avg Profit $15,306.30
    Avg Profit % 3.65%
    Avg Bars Held 9.14
    Max Consecutive 2

    Losing Trades 7
    Losing % 50.00%
    Gross Loss ($42,167.40)
    Avg Loss ($6,023.91)
    Avg Loss % -1.41%
    Avg Bars Held 9.14
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($32,944.67)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/10/2008
    Max Drawdown % -17.82%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/10/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 28,542.05
    RAR 34,730.14
    Profit Factor 2.5409
    Recovery Factor 1.9723
    Payoff Ratio 2.5842
    Sharpe Ratio 5.2374
    Ulcer Index 4.5211
    WL Error Term 3.441
    WL Reward Ratio 54.2103
    Luck Coefficient 2.315
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 1.1666
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.02

    Short Only
    Starting Capital $147,000.00
    Ending Capital $205,969.03
    Net Profit $58,969.03
    Net Profit % 40.11%
    Annualized Gain % 163.78%
    Exposure 0.28%

    Cash Interest $0.00
    Margin Loan Interest $0.00
    Total Commission ($1.90)
    DividendsPaid $0.00

    Number of Trades 11
    Avg Profit/Loss $5,360.82
    Avg Profit/Loss % 1.29%
    Avg Bars Held 6.36

    Winning Trades 7
    Winning % 63.64%
    Gross Profit $77,656.32
    Avg Profit $11,093.76
    Avg Profit % 2.62%
    Avg Bars Held 6.86
    Max Consecutive 4

    Losing Trades 4
    Losing % 36.36%
    Gross Loss ($18,687.29)
    Avg Loss ($4,671.82)
    Avg Loss % -1.05%
    Avg Bars Held 5.5
    Max Consecutive 3

    Max Drawdown ($21,205.58)
    Max Drawdown Date 10/14/2008
    Max Drawdown % -12.34%
    Max Drawdown % Date 10/14/2008

    Wealth-Lab Score 51,231.20
    RAR 58,440.69
    Profit Factor 4.1556
    Recovery Factor 2.7808
    Payoff Ratio 2.4898
    Sharpe Ratio 22.7678
    Ulcer Index 2.5875
    WL Error Term 2.327
    WL Reward Ratio 70.3827
    Luck Coefficient 2.0517
    Pessimistic Rate of Return 1.8069
    Equity Drop Ratio 0.0168


    Shit....sometimes that happens when you're going from one language to another. Some things get lost in translation.

    I've attached the current version.

    \/
     
    #108     Dec 16, 2008
  9. Am I crazy for posting this? I'm not sure.... I think Jack should kiss my ass, because he's not been much of a help in this process.
     
    #109     Dec 16, 2008
  10. So is J Hershey NOT a fraud now?

     
    #110     Dec 16, 2008
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