I've signed up with Al Brook's Price Action course

SimpleMeLike · Jul 27, 2020

HomelyWizzard said:
Initially, I just downloaded all the video material from youtube but later I have realized that $349 is a small price to pay for a quality course when there are people selling black box signals for $200/months. The course will go up on Aug 1, but I have nothing to do with them (I am no shill). As a member of the video course, you can access Al's forums and ask questions, etc that non-paying visitors cannot. Believe me, I am as skeptical of trading teachers as anyone but Al Brooks, by his own admission, was a losing trader for 10-years, he teaches that 10-years of losing taught him.
What appeals to me about his price action system is that it is simple and effective. Better than any indicator or widget you might buy for the same about as his course. The downside is you must watch hours and hours of videos, often repetitive but clear and understandable.
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Hello HomelyWizzard,

I purchased the video course as well about 6 months ago. Congratulations on investing in your trading career. I enjoy the videos and learn alot.

I am enjoying the video course and yes it is alot of work to watch the videos. I work full time job, so I can only study in my part time hours, but I am nearly complete watching the videos.

I am still not a consistent profitable trader, but this is not due to Al Brooks course, it is due to me not fully trusting and testing trade setups. I am not done studying the course. I am still learning and trial and error, and just grinding it out. I'll get there.

My opinion of the course so far:

1. Well, you gotta study. It is alot of price action and patterns to learn. If you work full time, just take a vacation for 2 weeks and go after it. I wish I had done this initially.
2. Take notes take notes take notes of important things.
3. You will get trading strategies from the course, but you have to document the trades and test for expectancy.

It looks easy, but in performing in real time takes practice.

Frederick Foresight · Jul 27, 2020

speedo said:
I credit the ideas of his as well as Halsey, Taylor, Cooper, Rashke and others along with substantial work on my own part to transition from a scalping methodology to a more profitable and less stressful intraday swing style.
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Can you not trade intraday swings with "scalp" entries? (Ideally with multiple contracts to manage the position.)

speedo said:
BTW, I was content with the scalping until I saw guys making 30-100 point intraday ES swings in the recent volatility. That triggered the thought that there were more efficient ways to trade and that lead me to the study of Brooks and Halsey and couldn't be more pleased that I did.
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Are you presently making those kinds of points using Brooks's methods?

Just curious.

SimpleMeLike · Jul 27, 2020

Frederick Foresight said:
Can you not trade intraday swings with "scalp" entries? (Ideally with multiple contracts to manage the position.)
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You ask a great question.

Yes, you can if and only if:

1. You use the correct stop loss placement
2. You take your scalp swing in the right location. And if you stopped out, you keep trying to get back in if the premise is true for a swing trade.
3. You manage the swing trade correctly. And you have to believe and trust your management style of the intraday swing trade.

Frederick Foresight · Jul 27, 2020

speedo said:
I learned different ways to establish measured move targets beyond the standard AB=CD and fib extension targets.
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Interesting that you would refer to measured moves. I don't really believe in them and think they're mostly illusory. To that end, I ask that you read a post I wrote several years ago under another nom de plume about Brooks, as well as Peter Brandt, a money manager with decades of experience who wrote a book definitely worth reading:

Brass said:
You make a fair point. I bought his first book soon after it came out, and returned it shortly thereafter for a refund. If memory serves, I read about 100 or 150 pages, give or take. More recently, I even had a look at a couple of the video presentations Brooks has made available on the Internet. I managed to only endure a portion of each of those videos. (I now know why Ferris Bueller took the day off.) And so, I confess I did not read his book from cover to cover, or watched any of his videos from beginning to end.

However, I did manage to form an opinion on the material to which I had been exposed and which I did my best to digest. (Over an admittedly brief period of time, but in my defense, I've been around for a while.) Here is where I have a problem with the overall premise of his approach. As I understand it, Brooks is a discretionary trader. He appears to have numerous guidelines, as evidenced by his mountain of material, and he picks and chooses at crunch time which of his guidelines he will adhere to, as circumstances warrant in his opinion. Got that? Depending on the number of guidelines one choose to have at his disposal, that can be a lot of information for the prefrontal cortex to juggle in the short amount of time available to react to short-term intraday price activity. Information is important and more information is better, but there comes a point where additional information (however configured) can potentially become detrimental to your decision-making. Too much overhead. This is a judgment call that we must each make for ourselves, dependent on our processing capacity and the nature of our chosen game.

Personally, I think Brooks has too many guidelines, some of which may or may not conflict with one another depending on other moderating criteria. And so, he might buy at Point X because of A, B and C, but he might not if D occurs unless it is offset by E. You get the idea. I do not know Brooks and I do not mean to smear him in any way. However, employing a discretionary method with a multitude of overlapping and potentially contradictory guidelines (of either a high or lower order, so the combinations can be endless), allows one to draw any conclusions he wants after the fact. That provides very fertile ground for someone who would want to exploit the naivetÃ© of others. Iâm not in any way saying Brooks is doing so, but the general observation should be made.

My own approach is largely systematic, and completely so when it comes to entry and initial protective stop. My discretion is largely limited to scaling in and out, albeit with very few and specific guidelines. Personally, I find it very liberating to travel light. It is what works for me, and it is what I prefer. Therefore, it is only natural that I would have a bias against an encyclopedic discretionary approach. Evidently, it works for some people. Given my bias, however, I wonder to what extent their trading would be just as profitable, if not more so, without quite all that overhead. A person with properly functioning legs can use crutches, but I wonder how much more efficiently he would walk without them.

Another point of contention I have is that, if memory serves, Brooks relies to some degree on measured moves or some derivative thereof. I think this is nonsensical regardless of how many people swear by them. It is flat out predicting. And while some people regard all trading as one manner of predicting or another, we should at least make the distinction between lower order âpredictingâ such as when to enter a position at perceived low risk, and the much higher order outright prediction of foretelling how far a move will go. By way of one trader as an example, read âDiary of a Professional Commodity Trader: Lessons from 21 Weeks of Real Tradingâ and judge for yourself. The author, Peter Brandt, advises at the outset that he will limit his trading to reacting rather than predicting, and then, counterintuitively, often relied on price targets. Interestingly, and although I donât recall his drawing this conclusion in his book, I found that his reliance to, or consideration of, price targets cost him money, either actual or by way of opportunity cost, in the aggregate. If you read the book you will see that he holds positions after they show decent profit but have not yet reached target, and then some of these positions get stopped out at a loss. In other trades, he exits at his predetermined price target for no other reason than because it was reached, only to watch the price continue on without him. Bottom line: I think his adherence to âmeasured movesâ and âprice targetsâ were an expensive diversion. If you do read his book you will see it for yourself. I donât think his experience with targets is unique. One observation Brandt did specifically make is that diagonal lines (trend lines) have rather limited trading value. Iâm surprised it took him so long to figure it out. All in all, however, I would heartily recommend Brandtâs book for your reading pleasure. The thing is, he made money over the course of the exercise that comprises the book. My view is that he was profitable despite the profit targets and trend lines rather than because of them. Judge for yourself. Again, his is only one traderâs documented experience over a limited period of time, but I doubt it is unique. Can you see the parallel I am trying to make? Again, I am expressing nothing other than an opinion. My own.
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smallfil · Jul 27, 2020

wrbtrader said:
Padutrader,

I would rather want to meet and kiss any of the below:

Ashley Callingbull-Burnham
Léa Seydoux
Jessica Alba
Jessica Biel
Jennifer Lawrence
Eve Mendes
Charlize Theron
Sofía Vergara
Marion Cotillard
Eugenie “Genie” Bouchard

Sorry, Al Brooks is not on the list and you gotta set your goals much higher.

wrbtrader
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Just Jessica Biel for me. If you have not seen Powder Blue movie, go see it now. You can thank me later. Oh, she is so gorgeous. Justin Timberlake is one lucky guy. Damn!

speedo · Jul 27, 2020

Frederick Foresight said:
Interesting that you would refer to measured moves. I don't really believe in them and think they're mostly illusory. To that end, I ask that you read a post I wrote several years ago under another nom de plume about Brooks, as well as Peter Brandt, a money manager with decades of experience who wrote a book definitely worth reading:

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I've always used MM's to some extent but have come to use them more commonly and find them quite effective. I don't credit this to any geometric or symmetric magic but simply because institutional algo's trigger there. Fib extension targets of 23.6 and 38.2 are common inflection points for the same reason and not because they reflect the DNA of the cosmos or anything to do with spiral shells or pyramid architecture. We make money by figuring out what the big dogs are doing and following along. As a day trader I don't care about why they do what they do...only what.

Frederick Foresight · Jul 27, 2020

speedo said:
I've always used MM's to some extent but have come to use them more commonly and find them quite effective. I don't credit this to any geometric or symmetric magic but simply because institutional algo's trigger there. Fib extension targets of 23.6 and 38.2 are common inflection points for the same reason and not because they reflect the DNA of the cosmos or anything to do with spiral shells or pyramid architecture. We make money by figuring out what the big dogs are doing and following along. As a day trader I don't care about why they do what they do...only what.
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Of course. Use what works. Personally, I've never been able use measured moves in any of my testing with any reliability, and so I don't bother with them. And, as his book shows, Brandt didn't have much success with them either on balance.

Regarding Fib levels, I find it curious that sophisticated institutional algos would trigger there and that they would reliably continue to do so again and again over time. It just seems so unlikely in the grand scheme of things. But if it somehow works for you then little else matters.

Laissez Faire · Jul 27, 2020

volpri said:
ROFLMAO I won’t bite. I have no trading secrets. I will discuss anything about how I trade. Thats it.
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No worries. I'm not a student of either Brooks or you, but as you said you had no secrets I was just curious as I expect everyone who's mentoring/teaching others to have good results.

Trading ES myself I'm curious what others are taking from this market.

speedo · Jul 27, 2020

Frederick Foresight said:
Of course. Use what works. Personally, I've never been able use measured moves in any of my testing with any reliability, and so I don't bother with them. And, as his book shows, Brandt didn't have much success with them either on balance.

Regarding Fib levels, I find it curious that sophisticated institutional algos would trigger there and that they would reliably continue to do so again and again over time. It just seems so unlikely in the grand scheme of things. But if it somehow works for you then little else matters.
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Yep, we each have to find what works for us and of course, we can only recognize tendencies and probabilities, never certainties.

SimpleMeLike · Jul 27, 2020

volpri said:
Successful Trading can been seen as a four pronged approach to the markets.
1) Learning concepts and ideas (Orthodoxy)
2) Practicing those concepts and ideas (Orthopraxy)
3) Proper psychological preparation
4) Appropriate performance and execution.

Lets’s examine prong 1:

Part A prong 1

Repetition is a key learning aid because it helps transition a skill from the conscious to the subconscious. Through repetition, a skill is practiced and rehearsed over time and gradually becomes easier. ... Another important factor in learning is the ability to make connections to previously learned knowledge. (source AplNext.com)

Repetition is an important literary device because it allows a writer or speaker to place emphasis on things they choose as significant. It tells the reader or audience that the words being used are central enough to be repeated, and lets them know when to pay special attention to the language. (Source: Literary terms)

Repetition works well because it helps your brain solidify connections that are used to recall memories. When you learn something new, your brain instantly attempts to associate it with something that you already know through a process of assimilation. (Source: noocube.com)

First, you needed to learn the essential skills. ... It's good because repetitionprovides the practice that children need to master new skills. Repetitionhelps to improve speed, increases confidence, and strengthens the connections in the brain that help children learn. (Source readingbrightstart.org)

Repetition is the mother of all learning. ... Learning is simple when you repeat. So don't tell yourself that you can't learn a new language, and don't blame it on your old brain. You can, and science keeps finding evidence saying that your brain can too. (Source: brainscape.com)

Words and thoughts that are repeated often get stronger by the repetitions, sink into the subconscious mind and affect the behavior, actions and reactions of the person involved. ... If you consciously choose the thoughts, phrases and words that you repeat in your mind, your life will start to change. (Source: successconciousness.com)

It strengthens and consolidates memories of things it encounters regularly and frequently. So spaced repetition – revisiting information regularly at set intervals over time – makes a lot of sense. Spaced repetition is simple, but highly effective because it deliberately hacks the way your brain works. (Source:theguardian.com)

One of the biggest mistakes a teacher can make is to forego the return or repetition. The learning process is one of slow engagement with ideas; gradually the ...(Source:etbn.org.uk)

Hence Brooks use of repetition. I would imagine.

Part B prong 1
“Learning that’s easy is like writing in sand, here today and gone tomorrow.”

Rereading is usually cognitively easy. Highlighting key terms/concepts is cognitively easy. These practices repeated several times are not very efficient or effective for increasing retention of material. Instead, students should create a much healthier habit of studying using retrieval practice. This learning strategy is much more cognitively effortful. Quizzing/testing/assessing one’s knowledge via answering recognition or recall questions, for example, is more difficult than simply rereading notes. A plethora of studies have shown evidence that this increased cognitive effort led to greater gains in retention of material long-term. (Source:theeffortfuleducator.com)

Have I volpri repeated enough the importance of repetition? However, that in itself while an important part of the learning process is still not enough. You need to combine it with RETRIEVAL PRACTICE. FOR DEEP LEARNING. That is, invent and use recognition techniques or recall questions that require mental effort.

However, Repetition and Deep learning are still not enough. Together those two create the orthodoxy leg of learning. That is, the learning of correct ideas and concepts. They are the first step in skill development.

Prong 2
The second and necessary step of skill development is orthopraxy. That is, correct practice. However, you need orthodoxy to be able to orthopraxy. You have to know “what” to practice.

Brooks gives, IMO, all the orthodoxy that a trader needs to trade successfully. His training is the most comprehensive and detailed treatment of price action that I know of. Sadly, most traders will never expend the effort to complete the orthodoxy leg or prong of trading presented by Brooks in his videos and books. They don’t like the repetition. They don’t like the detailed analysis. They won’t do the deep learning. Therefore, they never give themselves a chance to learn price action trading orthodoxy, Brooks style. They give up and declare it incomprehensible, double talk, or mumbo jumbo or something of that nature. The real problem is they are mentally lazy. If you want to find the gold nuggets you have to expend the effort and dig for them. Brooks is not going to cater to mental laziness and that is a good thing IMO.

Orthopraxy (correct practice of correct concepts) comes after a trader has orthodoxied the Brooks concepts (so to speak). A live trading Simulator facilitates the orthopraxy leg or prong of skill development. Nowadays there exist no excuse to not practice until a skill is learned, and becomes second nature, and to do so without monetary risk, whatsoever. If a trader does not orthopraxy then it is just plain being lazy.

Prong 3

There is a third leg or prong to skill development when learning and practicing trading Brooks, or any other methodolgy, for that matter. That third leg is the psychological or mental aspect of it. A trader can have orthodoxy, orthopraxis, and still fail and lose their savings. A trader can know what to do and how to do it and when to do it and cannot psychologically do it. That failure comes to light qlaringly when a real account with real money is traded. So, some learning and practice in the psychological aspect or third leg/third step in trading is imperative. Lack of psychological preparation is probably the single biggest failure in the trading world and without doubt the undoing of most traders. The good news is to some degree (though not 100%) a trader can learn and practice the psychological aspect on a SIM thus training himself for real money trading. Like an airline pilot that is trained on a sim and learns how to respond and execute, in a myriad of circumstances. I have heard (not sure if it is true) that when an airplane transport pilot actually flies the jet for the first time it is with passengers on board. I know when I took private pilot training that the first time I crawled in the pilots seat the instructor had me fly the plane. Taking off was easy. Flying was relatively easy. Landing was a booger though. I needed more orthopraxy to land successfully. The orthodoxy in flight ground school was not enough..LOL

Prong 4
Correct performance/execution is what is going to make a trader consistently profitable. Which by default is our goal. We know we can’t win every time, nor make money on every trade, but we must train ourselves to win enough times, and big enough, to offset any losses when we do experience them. And to still stay ahead money wise. Said in simple terms, our win rate and average win, should, ideally, be greater than our losing rate and average loss.

Trading is one of the highest performance activities that a human can engage in. It requires an incredible amount of learning, practice, mental strength, and execution than most other activities, as the variables are many and can be huge. It takes a myriad of procedures and tactics, executed properly and at the right time, to be successful trading, in any conditions. Like flying in the fog. Flying in the rain. Flying in strong wind conditions. Flying in mountainous conditions. There are many procedures to learn IF you want to trade the markets in “any conditions.” Now if you are satisfied watching a computer for a single setup all day then that is your prerogative. I personally, had rather learn how to trade in all market conditions, make my money fast and go on to living life doing other things...like fishing and traveling.

I train myself to trade all market conditions. When I finally crawl my carcass out of bed it is usually after the market open (because of some health issues not laziness), and I crank up the laptop, launch my trading platform, it takes me about 5 minutes to get an overnight view of what the markets did and the more immediate view since the open. Then I am ready to look for trading opportunities. I don’t have to spent hours in preparation and research before the open. I don’t care one iota about the news. The chart tells me all I need to know.

So stay awake as you learn Brook’s orthodoxy! Lol “You snooze you lose”
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Beautifully written.