It's time for Brandonf to prove he is not a scammer, and either put up or shut up.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Brandonf, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    It's Time For Brandon to Put up or STFU

    Over the last week or so I think that, and this is partly my fault, my Internet Marketing Thread, the Spelling Secrets....has done what a lot of ET threads do, and its gone off the rails.

    This has been because there are a lot of self proclaimed "experts" in Internet Marketing out there telling you that what I'm teaching you just simply doesnt work. They speculate that I'm broke (I admit that I still owe the hospital a bunch of money due to not having had enough insurance, but my cash flow situation is pretty good), and that I'm just a washed up has been dying for your affection.

    It's hard to know who to trust these days. In the past when this kind of thing would come up regarding my trading the solution was pretty simple. One time, for nearly a week, I had a standing offer out there to pay $100 to any former customer of mine who would simply step forward and speak of a bad experience they had with me. Now, a lot of the usual "all guru's suck" crowd stepped forward of course and where all too happy to bash and trash, but even though I offered $100, not one single unhappy former customer came forward. I dunno know about you, but if someone screws me over I'm willing to tell about it for free, and if they offered me $100 to tell about it I would certainly take that opportunity.

    I'd also simply put real time trades up and discuuss them. They would either work or they would not. Because I know what I'm doing my winners where a lot bigger then my losers and people who took the trades made money. With Internet Marketing it's not so easy though because A) I don't have any customers, all I've ever done is just make money for myself and my partners and B) I can't just give a trade that will resolve itself within 40 minutes with a very obvious result. I can tell someone exactly what to do with Internet Marketing, and even if they do it 100% correctly it could be weeks, sometimes even months before the results are seen.

    Like I said I've been called a liar, a scamer and broke on this thread. I've actually taken more abuse on this thread then I ever did on a trading thread, which is to me pretty amazing since all the people on the trading threads used to be pissed off that I was so good at selling stuff. Now we have a bunch of people screaming from the rooftops that I don't know how to sell shit. So, I think that the only thing for me to do is put up, or shut up. And with that in mind here is the actual, real, income statements from ONE of my online business this last week. This is my biggest business, it accounts for about 2/3 of what I'm making online right now. Now, these numbers are my net. About 60% of the sales are made by affiliates, who are paid 55% for each sale. The remaining 40% of the sales basically come from the Google Content network, where I'm spending about $800 to $1200 per day. This funnel starts with a simple $17 ebook and some spruced up PLR's. Also to to clear, while a huge part of my sales here are because of affiliates, this is not affiliate marketing. This is a product I own and market myself.

    So anyway, this is what I woke up to this morning. If any of the self proclaimed experts who are bashing me can produce similar, or better, numbers I will shut up and go away, conceeding that you know more about selling shit on the Internet than I.


    Sometimes it's just good to be me :)
  2. <i>"Now we have a bunch of people..."</i>

    Bunch of people? Hardly... just two of the biggest a**holes who ever polluted this little public message board, which is saying a lot so far as public message board traffic goes.

    Your threads are always entertaining and educational. Kindly put the offenders on ignore, just like everyone else long ago did.
  3. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    Nah, a lot of people! It's us vs them. Im the forsaken hero fighting an uphill battle. It's the team man, the team! :))

    Seriously though if guys like that did not just come out of the woodwork on the web by themselves I'd have to create them. I'd certainly be willing to pay them, but they seem to be plenty happy to do their thang for free.
  4. I don't have anything against you Brandon, but I feel this is a trading website and I don't really see why you are allowed to promote your internet marketing stuff.

    You say you are not asking for money, and not getting any financial benefit from links and the such...but in the end, you are trying to establish yourself and your reputation in this area and you are using ET to do so. And, I think it is reasonable to think you might do something in the future with these threads that will benefit you financially.

    Just my .02. In the past I thought you were serious about trading, but now it seems like this is your focus. And to me this business is kind of sleazy and reminds me of slick used car sales.

    Take care.
  5. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    So, just so that no one accuses me of dishonesty I should point out that those numbers are GROSS, not net. It's about $47,500 GROSS SALES this week from my largest site (accounts for about 2/3 of what I'm doing online right now). The NET from the site is about $16,000. This week has been a better week then average because I ran a promotion, a more typical week would see sales of around 30-35K GROSS with a net of around 10 to 15K. I started this site while I was in the hospital this summer in isolation, so don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.

    My total start up costs came to about $400. Now, to be fair I had some good friends who helped me out did about $10,000 in free work for me, but even at that a $10,000 investment to create business that will do well over $1million in sales this year is not to bad in anyone's book.

    Also I want to note that this is an exceptional success. Just like most traders will never make $10,000 to $15,000 per week, so too most Internet Marketers will never see $10,000 to $15,000 weeks (most wont even see $10,000 to $15,000 years). You see, I'm what they call a professional.

    The good news though is that anyone can become a professional. Seriously, I'm not the smartest guy anyone has ever met, you only have to look at my spelling and grammar and I think that will settle that.

    Also note that this is NOT done by me selling an affiliate product. I have affiliates who sell for me (about 60% of my sales comes from affiliates, who I pay 50% on all services except the mastermind group, for which they are paid a one time $200 payment).

    I started off the course here in the direction of affiliate marketing because it is an easy way to start. Your not going to get rich, but it does give you the opportunity to get your feet wet. It's also how I do the majority of my product research (ie figuring out what will sell. I will find a CB product, promote it and see how it goes, if I can make money getting only 40 to 60% of the sale I say to myself..."self, you sure could make a bunch more getting 100%!" and off I go) For this reason, I really thought about the direction I was taking this course, and have decided to include the affiliate stuff as a starter, because I do think it is, as I said the best way to get your feet wet and to start out. It's a good way to learn the ropes and get some experience under your belt, rather like paper trading I guess. However, as you can see the focus has shifted more towards actually having your own product.

    The reason I did this is really for the same reason I don't create options trading products. I don't trade options, but I do trade stocks and futures. This is not a perfect example because I do make use of affiliates, but its close and I hope ya'll will see the point I'm trying to make.

  6. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    Hi Kgharris, we have talked several in the past and I've always liked you a lot and respect your posts here. So, I want to address you respectfully as you have always done the same with me.

    First of all you are correct in that I have thought about moving into the "Internet Marketing" and "make money from home" market. Look, I have never sold anything in my life if I don't think I can provide a huge value to my customers, and I think that my numbers above show that I know how to sell stuff on the Internet.

    I am also serious about trading. I still trade every day and I enjoy it a lot. I think that you can go back and look at the posts I have here on trading, even recently and while I was battling cancer, and find a lot of value for the average trader in them. I've made hundreds of real time calls here on ET, and a lot of people here will tell you that I'm a part of the reason they are successful as traders. I don't see how being a good salesman precludes me from being a good trader as well? I really fail to see that connection.

    In terms of my own finances I am building myself back up. I discussed in detail exactly what cancer and the complications from it did to me financially because I did not have proper insurance. Between 1998 and 2005 I made a little under $3million total. When Toni and I divorced we split it 50/50, there was not a lawyer involved because it was a pretty friendly split as far as splits go. Over the course of those 7 years I made about $1.7 million online, and about $1.3 million trading.

    This summer my hospital stay cost close to $800,000. That pretty much wiped me out because I'd already been dipping into my money to pay for my treatments and whatnot. Because of my cancer I also returned all of the money to my private money mgnt clients, so the only trading capital I was working with was my own, $140,000, account.

    Because I was very sick I went for about 17 months where I really could not work at all. I had a few days that I came in and traded, and I'd often post on ET when that was the case, or go into Toni's room and share the trades. I suspect anyone who's still in Toni's room could tell you that I still will often come in there and share trades and teach and that they get a lot from me when I do come in.

    Right now I still have a lot of bills. I also have an 80% chance that my cancer will come back and I will never again have insurance to cover it. I have two kid's who I love, a six year old Brandon and a 10 year old Alexis, I'd like to see do all the same things any father would like to see his kids do as they grow up. I know that the only way that is even remotely possible is for me to put all of my skills to use and make money every way I can, as effectively as possible and as much of it as possible. Even if I do that, the odds are pretty substantially against me being here ten years from now. When/if that happens I will fight it with everything I have, and I'd also like to have something I can leave my kids,they are great kids and deserve it. It won't be easy, but thats my goal.

    Trading is large part of that, but so is my online business.

    One thing that having cancer made me do was really look at my life and what I give to the world. It really forces you to look at your own mortality and I do want to leave some sort of lasting imprint on the world. I want to help as many people as possible live the life that they dream of living. Can I help them all? Of course not! But, I do think that I'm qualified to try and help either a trader or an aspiring online home business professional.

    One thing with Internet Marketing though is that it's very cliqish. It's a small fraternity of about 20 guys that control probably 80% of the market. Walker, Kern, Pagan, etc etc. If you are not in that "club" you simply will not make it, period. Especially if they don't want you to make it. Well, there are a couple of guys in that "club" (the guys I mentioned above sell very good stuff btw) who sell shit. I know them personally and they actively hate my guts. Three of them have in fact told me that if I try to get into Internet Marketing that they will do everything they can to make sure I'm wasting my time and I fail. This was just recently, so I've pretty much put that idea on the shelf. Could I fight them and eventually be successful? I think that the quality of what I do would stand on it's own and people would eventually find me, yes. But I simply don't have the time or the energy to fight a group of very well established and trusted guys who actively will want to keep me out of the market.

    So, I had started this thread on ET because I wanted to put a course together and get feedback from actual users of the course from a demographically similar group of people to the ones who would be my buyers (ie entrepreneurial folks, as I think most traders are certainly that). So yes, I did plan to release a product, but I never planned to sell it on ET. In fact I planned to have it available for free here so that I could have feedback to continue to make the product better.

    In the end I realize, as I said, that it's simply not worth the effort for me to fight those guys and break into IM. However, there are about 30 or 40 people who I know are actively following and learning from my thread, and I'm going to finish it up for them. They deserve that.

    I realize that this thread may have hurt my credentials as a trader with some people. Certainly some people will look at it, and if/when I start another trading site they will say "Oh he is nothing but a marketING Wizard, and he admits it!, here is the proof!" I know that, and I guess I will have to live with that. However, I would never sell a product unless I think it is simply the best on the market at its price point, period. My free shit is better then most peoples paid stuff. In time its very likely I will try to start up another large trading site. I've got small one now, but ultimatly if your good at both trading and at selling there is more money in trading then anything other then Porn, gambling or fraud. John Carter and Herbert Senters, for example, make over $500,000 per month with Tradethemarkets. Martin Weiss makes over $100million per year with I'm not anywhere near as good at Martin Weiss' management people, and thus far Carter and Hurbert have made more money than I have, but I have the same tools available to me as they do and I feel I could reach that level. Herbert and John are both also somewhat active in helping online business owners and marketers. Does that mean that they have nothing of value to offer traders? I don't think so. Now, I have never seen their prodcuts myself, and I've talked to some folks who don't like them, but I've talked to a lot more who like them. Again, just because you are a successful marketer, that doesnt preclude you from being a good trader. An ex wife Toni. The fact of the matter is I think that she has one of the best product line ups of anyone in the industry. The sad fact though is that she could not sell ice to people in the middle of the F'n desert. As a result, she has, in my opinion, by far the best training out there, yet she barely makes $100k per year selling it. It doesnt add a ton of work to her day, and she makes about the same amount trading so it's worth it for her to do. However, if she would actually learn to market i have little doubt that she would sell $3 to $5million per year. She won't though and that's fine too.
    But like I said, I realize I have probably hurt my credibility as a trader with some people such as yourself. I do understand that, I wish it was not true, but I see how it could be.


    PS. This is not a particularly well written reply, it kinda rambles. The reason that is true is that I really do respect and like Kgharris a lot. His comments is actually the first time I've someone critical of me on ET and I felt bad about it and did not laugh and say oh thank you, I can use it. I absolutly understand why you feel the way you do though Kgharris, but I hope you can see my side of things too. I've never been anything but 100% open and honest with ET. When I have struggled and failed, it's been right there for everyone to see. When I have had success, it's been right there for everyone to see.
  7. Thank you for the well thought-out response. I don't know that it changed my mind, but I do have a better understanding of your situation and appreciate it.


    I wish you nothing but the best in your health and continued recovery.
  8. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    This probably won't change any opinions, but I'll give it a whirl anyhow.
  9. Splat


  10. I have known Brandon since 1999. He is for real.
    #10     Apr 25, 2009