It's all over for NYSE

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Mecro, May 19, 2004.

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  1. Mecro


    First of all, I am starting this thread for discussion and not flames.

    Starting last Thursday, the NYSE abuses skyrocketed. I'm already somewhat used to the common order execution manipulation, uptick scam, price "improvements" and liquidity pulls but for the past week the specialists have went on a rampage. I have had consistent problems with limits not being honored & printed through, locked/crossed limits held while price was improved make sure the limits are not filled, market orders simply held out to god knows what price. Besides that, the cancel command has secretly become the magical way to get filled regardless of whether your order was out there for a millisecond or 5 minutes and canceled orders are somehow revived & filled out of nowhere and out of the money.

    It is not just me, other NYSE traders in my office has felt the same pain. Over the weekend I spoke with a friend who works for a very successful hedge fund and he said that Thurs & Fri their traders were flipping out and feeling the pain from the specialist screw.

    NYSE trading conditions have already been consistently degenerating YTD. Declining volume, lack of volatility, choppy market & dead ranges are becoming common everyday conditions that I am pretty much used to. But this is a really drastic change, making NYSE almost untradeable, at least to me. Personally, I am concerned since Memorial Day and summer are just around the corner so naturally I am expecting a tougher market in the upcoming weeks. But just how much worse can it get?

    One trader told me that from reading some articles he gathered that NYSE is going electronic within the year. This mounting abuse might be a confirmation as the NYSE sadists, knowing their tirade is over, are robbing traders for every penny.

    Please, I do not need to hear how this and that NYSE trader is making this and that. I'm still up for the month and I know there are traders making money from NYSE. Yes I know bout S&P and other trading vehicles but I am not stupid to just jump in and give up my money to you guys. I have my own solutions and taking my own steps. My concern is about the trading conditions with NYSE, a sole trading vehicle that many prop traders started with and very used to. I am also concerned about general trading conditions in US equities. Has Naz experienced such a dragdown as well?

    No flames, no pissing contests please just some discussion. I am not looking for condolences or arguments. Thank you.
  2. Your 100% correct, you friggin moron. OK, let's see if you can honor what you write. The NYSE is way, wayout of control. Its robbery every day for me, and God forbid I hit the "market order" button. The quotes magically disappear, and I get filled 20 cents from the quote. Then it goes right back to the original spread.

    The NYSE must goto nickels. The sizes will be bigger, and it will help provide much needed credibility. Until then, you have to do what I do, trade less, and have more convction in your price. And stick to them, and don't waffle.
  3. is there any reason to get your hopes up about the 5 cent increments? if there is not something tangible in the works then i would say you are wasting your time hoping for a change. they couldn't care less if it hurts intraday traders.
  4. Cheese


    Low volume is the culprit.

    Hey guys, when you get the electronic replacement of the specialists with orders in a queue, partial fills and all the other myriad electronic screw-ups, be my guest for some more of your 'Lifes a bitch' nancy melodramas.
  5. MR.NBBO


    Yeah, today was one of the worst I've seen in a progressively worse NYSE trading environment. I still made plenty today.....but only got a fraction of what was due.

    I've started tracking my limits against locked book & whats due execution.
    Today was a low point at near 28-29% of all limits due an execution, were, in fact executed. Getting 3 outta 10, what a joke.
    Cost: $3850-4100.

    Thanks specs., glad I could pay for your summer vacation.
    Massive downhill slide in execution since last April.
  6. Yes, there is a good reason for me to dream that they goto nickel increments. It is because my career is as a trader, and I trade the NYSE very often, and I cannot bear to see them destroy themselves so foolishly, which then hurts my business.

    So I dream.

    They're hurting themselves as well. They see it in the profits. I mean, why the f@ck would a $100 stock trade by pennies? I'm optimistic someone at the NYSE has a brain and will get it someday soon..
  7. My proposal:

    up to $20 stocks trade by pennies.

    up to $100 stocks trade by nickels.

    over $100 stocks trade by dimes.

    The NYSE would generate so much more business if they did it this way you wonder if Grasso is still running things there.
  8. Mecro


    You know I do not understand what is the point of this nasty comment. I can argue you to death about electronic screw ups vs intentional specialist abuse but I will not because that is not why I started the thread. You would lose that argument however.
    If there are disadvantages to completely electronic, which I am sure there are, just discuss them in a mature manner. I'm actually interested to what the common order execution screw ups exist on Naz and how they are handled by traders.
    I am a supporter of the specialist system but not of the personal side investment account/book that turns a prestigious order handling & execution position into an ole boys club sadistic abuser of the rules for personal gains.
    It is a bit curious to me why the openly public critics of the NYSE will not simply suggest the abolishment of the personal trading by the specialists. It has been mentioned in the investigations of specialist abuses but never expanded on. Kinda makes me suspicious about the possible new "all electronic" NYSE. The core of the problem is that personal trading account not human vs computer.

    In regards to low volume, today was 1.5 bil. I remember over last August when I was not even that good of a trader and not exactly profitable, I experienced a better trading environment. Average volume then was about 1.3 to 1.4 bil and I got used to that.
    I've noticed over the past few months that even some high volume days traded like there was actually 30% less volume. Possibly an extreme painting of the tape and wash sale prints (could explain the amounting disregard of limit orders).

    Something weird is going on with NYSE and it may be a reflection of the overall US equity markets.
  9. IGNORE feature!!!!

    Mecro is a shill. A parasite. Try to talk to him and he'll thumb his snooty nose at you. He thinks he's better then everyone.

    Just ignore or every thread about the market direction will end up in nonsese.

    You ask for a quality thread, then come to mine and try to destroy? You ever here the old saying that you're treated as you treat others.

  10. Casey30


    I think it is a combination of many things. I wanted to mention of few of my ideas why this might be happening.

    First, Since all the specialist firms have been investigated and fined, they can know go back to doing what they love to do. Since it will probably be another 30 years before these firms are investigated again for trading abuses they can now return to the practice of riping people off without much consequences.

    Second, I think there are a couple of days per month that they use to blatantly screw with orders, otherwise most days seem alright.

    Third, they all know their time is ending soon(5 years or less) when an electronic market will replace them, so perhaps they are just trying to make the most of it and are stealing as much money as possible as quickly as they can.

    Fourth , 5th, 6th, infinity....

    Lastly, I wanted to say that I have been trading NYSE for four years and I enjoy trading it. The specialist abuses are part of the game and you just have to not let it get to you so much because it can effect your trading negatively. Also there are ways the trader and the specialist can co-exist and both make money, every trader just needs to figure it out for themselves. Good Luck to you.
    #10     May 19, 2004
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