Iterative Refinement

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Spydertrader, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. ivob

    ivob

    I disagree completely with this. (that it cannot be a reversal)

    Anything can happen. Anytime. To be absolutely sure there will be a point 3 is predicting.
    How do you know some news (or whatever) doesn't come out at some moment destroying your complete perfect picture.
    It happens.

    You really have never seen price moving up on increasing volume (point 1-->2) and subsequently moving down on increasing volume never making a point 3 up.
    It happens.

    The point is that as soon as we get the increasing red we know this cannot be a 2-->3 traverse (providing we are not breaking a lateral or a steeper RTL and don't have a spike bar). So we simply assume we have a new 1-->2 traverse the other way. What we thought to be point 2 becomes point 1. If we are quick we don't lose much.

    So you don't always simply hold until you get a point 3. In the case you get increasing volume against what you thought to be the dominant direction then you don't hold and you don't expect a point 3 anymore but you are on your way to a new point 2. There has been a flaw in the sequence.

    So in my opinion reversals can happen anytime. The good thing is that the market will give a signal so we can respond.

    regards,
    Ivo
     
    #6671     Aug 8, 2008
  2. Spydertrader
    I want to make sure I’m not interpreting your above comments, too literally. I know Lateral Formations and Pennant Formations are included when considering a Formation Bo/FBO. Are Lateral Movements considered to be in the group of “Formations”?

    Thanks,
    Phineas
     
    #6672     Aug 8, 2008
  3. Hi ivo,

    As you did with me, so I must disagree with you. It is a verity, a truth, an absolute certainty that: No 1,2,3? then no reversal. Retrace, yes but reversal, no. I am as certain of this as I am that on God's green earth, if you drop an apple from your hand it will hit the ground. The 1,2,3 is the "sequence" thingy.

    All you have to do, as a traverse trader, is sit on your duff and wait for the reversal AFTER the 1,2,3. That's what Jack and Spyder (and I'm sure others) do. He has said a gazillion times that the thing he does most is HOLD. Well, the 1,2,3 is why.

    lj
     
    #6673     Aug 8, 2008
  4. #6674     Aug 8, 2008
  5. Spyder ES Chart.

    Sorry for bad pasting. I suck at this.
     
    #6675     Aug 8, 2008
  6. ES Daily Chart August 8 2008

    The green non dominant traverse of this down channel needed a valid retrace.
    I have annotated a dashed dark brown trendline.

    I would like to know if it is a valid retrace?

    If so price will resume the dominant for a second time and then we look for a change signal.

    Any feedback?
     
    #6676     Aug 9, 2008
  7. #6677     Aug 9, 2008
  8. Oddly enough, the above quote falls in direct conflict with how the market actually operates.

    - Spydertrader
     
    #6678     Aug 9, 2008
  9. ivob

    ivob

    Hi,

    So you say a tape on increasing volume cannot be followed by a tape on increasing volume in the opposite direction?

    I don't have to look back very much to see examples of this.

    Just enter on point 1 and wait for point 3 blindly and you get killed big time. You need to monitor very well how the movement from point 2-->point 3 is.

    Ivo
     
    #6679     Aug 9, 2008
  10. ivob

    ivob

    Well you have seen many more charts than me so I am open to learn.

    How can you actually know for sure that something will not happen at some moment?

    All it requires is suddenly many buyers or sellers coming in.
    How do you know this won't happen?

    I agree that if it does happen the market will logically signal it and one can take action probably at an early stage.

    I even recall one skype chat in the beginning of this year where we were all expecting a point 3 down including you. What happened was increasing black bar after bar and new highs. I remember you saying literally: "These things just happen in the market"... I never forgot this.

    Another quote I recall: "When you see increasing red, no need to be in the trade anymore". This involved an uptrend.

    Anything can happen, the good thing is the market will show it.

    regards,
    Ivo
     
    #6680     Aug 9, 2008