Iterative Refinement

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Spydertrader, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. Padawan

    Padawan


    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...51&highlight=thinking+and+clearly#post1928551 (There's a chart right above Spyder's post.)

    I understand that one difference between that situation and this one is that the bar did not close inside the prior bar's range whereas today's bar did.

    But then I see that post and I start wondering what I did wrong (see the part about holding short through increasing black and not thinking clearly)

    I understand that price can move from pt 2 to pt 3 down on increasing black volume, but clearly I wasn't thinking clearly. Any help is appreciated.

    Please know that I am not trying to ruffle any feathers or disprove the method.
     
    #4531     Jun 13, 2008
  2. ehorn

    ehorn

    F.W.I.W. Here is my take on the morning...
     
    #4532     Jun 13, 2008
  3. This is not the only difference. Take a look at YM 0952 eob and 0954 eob. Decreasing black volume while the price is moving higher. This type of behavior is found in two situations:
    1. retrace in down trend, or
    2. lateral movement in up trend.
    YM leads ES. Take a look at ES 0955 eob. It is lateral movement. Therefore, YM finds itself in an uptrend beginning with the IBGS on 0950 eob. We've established that. Now what is the next thing that is supposed to happen on YM (which is in uptrend) that we have not seen yet. Pt3! What do the outside bars create quite often?
     
    #4533     Jun 14, 2008
  4. ES 06/13/08...:D
     
    #4534     Jun 14, 2008
  5. Good Discussion.

    Some might find this brief interjection helpful.

    With respect to 6-13-2008 YM [close of bar] at the 9:50, 9:52 and 9:54 time frame (all times Eastern), where does one 'see' a signal, from the YM, to go short?

    I see an Outside Bar on the YM at the 9:56 [close of] bar, but the close of this specific example sits inside the previous bar. Clearly something (sentiment shift) developed which caused the close to move off its low.

    At minimum, this specific example tells the trader, "You need more information."

    Where would one find "More Information" when monitoring the YM?

    See attached.

    - Spydertrader

    <img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1957735>
     
    #4535     Jun 14, 2008
  6. Three scenarios account for increasing black volume as price moves from pt 2 to pt 3 in a down channel:
    Scenario #1
    Scenario #2
    Scenario #3
    I am not counting the possible fourth, as it has to do with trader not the market.
    The ES 1540 eob bar (05-20-08) does not fall into any of the above scenarios.
     
    #4536     Jun 14, 2008
  7. The answer:

    Since part of the decision at this point in time (6-13-08 close of 9:55 bar ES) was based on the YM (9:56 bar) that indicated IRV and Price moving down; when the WMCN by the close of the YM bar did not happen (i.e. Price continue down and close outside the range of the previous bar), I had permission to immediately reverse the entry on the ES and not wait for the close of the 10:00 ES bar.

    So simple, no wonder Avi8 was right :D :D
     
    #4537     Jun 14, 2008
  8. :D I suspect the same tool might have signaled earlier, in this case as well.
     
    #4538     Jun 14, 2008
  9. dkm

    dkm

    ym 09:54 is a lat bo, HH on decr blk vol
    ES 09:55 is HH incr blk vol but closes back inside previous bar = short. At this moment, ym was incr red vol, outside bar, supporting a short, so short at 09:55 seems reasonable.

    With the limitation of acting only on the close of each ES bar, the next action is long at the close of 10:00.
     
    #4539     Jun 14, 2008
  10. Padawan

    Padawan

    Thank you.
     
    #4540     Jun 14, 2008