Discussion in 'Politics' started by wildchild, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. wildchild


    Can anybody spell it out and explain what interest the United States has in this whole dispute?

    I asked this question in another thread. It was ignored. Maybe it needs a thread of its own. Okay all you hawks for Israel. Whats the answer? We know you are quite happy using F-16s and Apaches made and supplied by the good old USA but what return does the USA get?

  2. The USA doesn't have its own God.

    We do all this for Israel so that Jakejones can tell his God to '' Bless America '' also.
  3. rew


    What our politicians get is a lot of campaign money from Zionists. That's all you need to know to understand the U.S. - Israeli relationship.
  4. wildchild


    That may explain why a politician supports Israel, but why is it in the interest of the USA to support Israel?

    I am looking for someone to express why American tax dollars are being used to support Israel. How does this relationship help the average American whose tax dollars are being used to support to Israel?
  5. How do you make the case that this not the ancestral home of the Jews?
    The Jews predate any cohesive Palestinian state.
    In fact the Palestinians should be fighting Jordan for their homeland.
  6. wildchild


    First and foremost, the question clearly asked what benefit does this have for the USA? Exactly what does your argument have to do with the USA taxpayer?

    Second of all, how does ancestral homeland give stakes in the here and now? We would have a shitload of borders to redraw.

    Third of all, if you moved out, you dont get to move back and displace those who replaced you simply because you were mistreated in your new home.
  7. The Jews have always had a good size population in that area.
    Truman felt there was enough historical background to justify a Jewish homeland. And he had the UN proclaim it without veto.

    Don't forget the UN proclamation also approved a State for the Palestinians which they refused.
  8. Mistreated is putting it rather mildly. The history of Jews in Europe includes forced conversions, pogroms, expulsions, and that bit of unpleasantness in Germany during WWII.
    I doubt you care, but for the one or two actual thinking people who might stray into this ring of the inferno, here we go: To understand the relationship, you're going to need to be able to do a bit of complex thinking.
    The first thing you have to do is come up with an explanation for Operation Nickel Grass, Nixon's resupply effort of Israel in the 1973 war. The mystery here is why Nixon overrode everyone and put together a massive resupply of Israel during this war, going to the extent of delivering American jet fighters that were then stripped of their insignia, replaced with Israeli insignia, and sent into combat within hours of their arrival.
    Remember, prior to this the relationship had been somewhat less than the total embrace it is now. Since that operation and the ensuing Arab oil embargo, it has been much closer.
    The reason is: Israel was going to go nuclear. The IDF was strained to an extent that surprised the US and others by the two-front attack. Europe refused to help at all, even going to the length of refusing to allow US jets to overfly their territory during the resupply effort (a bit more "mistreatment", I suppose). So Israel was confronted with the reality that it only had one country it could rely on for a resupply effort, and that resupply effort would be crucial: the USSR was shipping stuff to Egypt and Syria at a furious rate.
    So, at this point we have a classic Cold War proxy war, with the added twist that the US ally in this proxy was a nuclear state, and was preparing to use them. Then throw in the further twist of our dependence on the Arabs for oil supplies, and you've got one extremely complex brew.
    Nixon's overriding of everyone to get those supplies over can therefore be explained by two things: the Cold War, and Israel's nuclear capacity. Even though we weren't in the total embrace with them then that we are now, we were still seen as their closest ally, and if Israel were to use those nukes it would make having any sort of friendly relations with any Arab state an impossibility for the US. The only way to keep the nuclear option off the table was to resupply Israel, and do so in such a way as to let them know they had a friend who would back them unconditionally in a time of need.
    So, paradoxically, our close relationship with Israel keeps them from feeling so desperate that they would feel it necessary to nuke one of their adversaries, which then allows us to continue to have decent relations with their Arab neighbors, and which therefore keeps our oil flowing, temporary embargoes notwithstanding.
    The world is a complex place, and since the US needs all these resources to keep going because of our huge economy, we necessarily wind up doing all kinds of things that look crazy, but actually aren't once you look at them more closely.
    China is trying not to get itself all entangled in the world as a result of its own need for these same resources, but they will find that it's impossible. Empire, and the complexities of managing the client states within the empire, come with being number one and number two in the world.
  9. wildchild


    This is the kind of answer I am looking for. I am not sure if I buy it all, but your argument certainly has some merit.

    I hear very few highlighting why the US needs to be making these sacrifices for Israel. Its good to see some can. It is by far the best answer we have had so far.
  10. wildchild


    The American Indian has had a historical background throughout North and South America. Certainly much longer than any other. Does that mean the Americas should be deemed an American Indian State and all non-American Indians will be treated like second class citizens?
    #10     Sep 24, 2011