Israel launches "preemptive strikes" against Iran

Discussion in 'Politics' started by insider trading, Jun 12, 2025.

  1. ipatent

    ipatent

    They secured the land in the first place by murdering the inhabitants, and the scriptures say if you leave one alive you will regret it.

    Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
     
    #541     Jun 27, 2025
  2. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    There were many Canaanites living side-by-side with Jews in the region -- many time quite peacefully. Most of the Canaanites were killed by one of many of the invading empires of the region -- the same ones that conquered, enslaved and killed Jews.
     
    #542     Jun 27, 2025
  3. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    The Jews were Canaanites, like many splinter groups they left the power centers.

    Timeline: The Evolution of Yahweh
    From desert deity to the monotheistic God of Judaism

    1. Bronze Age Canaanite Pantheon (Before 1200 BCE)
    • El: Chief god of the Canaanite pantheon; depicted as a kindly, elderly "Father of Gods."

    • Baal: Storm and war god; rival to El’s authority, associated with rain and fertility.

    • Asherah: El’s consort; a mother goddess later linked to Yahweh in early Israelite worship.

    • Yahweh: Not yet attested in Canaanite religion—likely a minor deity from the southern deserts (Edom/Midian).
    2. Late Bronze Age / Early Iron Age (~1200–1000 BCE)
    • Yahweh’s First Appearance:
      • Mentioned in Egyptian texts as “Yhw in the land of the Shasu” (nomads from Edom/Seir).

      • Likely adopted by early Israelites via Midianites/Kenites (cf. Exodus 3, Judges 5:4–5).
    • Syncretism with El:
      • Yahweh absorbs El’s characteristics (e.g., called El Shaddai in Genesis).

      • Inscriptions at Kuntillet Ajrud suggest Asherah was worshipped as Yahweh’s consort.
    • Emergence of Israelite Identity:
      • Archaeological and textual evidence suggests that early Israelites were Canaanites who gradually differentiated themselves—culturally, religiously, and politically.

      • Key distinction: adoption of exclusive Yahweh worship, dietary laws, and new social structures (e.g., tribal confederation without monarchy).

      • Merneptah Stele (c. 1207 BCE): First Egyptian mention of “Israel,” indicating a distinct group already present in Canaan.
    3. United Monarchy (~1000–930 BCE)
    • Yahweh as National God:
      • Kings David and Solomon promote Yahweh worship in Jerusalem.

      • Other gods persist—e.g., Solomon builds shrines to Chemosh and Molech.

      • Psalm 29, originally a Baal hymn, is repurposed to praise Yahweh.
    • Political Unification as Identity Marker:
      • The creation of a centralized monarchy under David and Solomon helps solidify Israelite identity apart from Canaanite neighbors.

      • Yahweh becomes associated with royal ideology and national destiny.
    4. Divided Kingdoms (930–586 BCE)
    • Yahweh vs. Baal:
      • In the north (Israel), Yahweh and Baal worship are blended—condemned by prophets like Elijah.

      • In the south (Judah), Yahweh is elevated, but Asherah worship remains (2 Kings 21:7).
    • Cultural Divergence from Canaanite Roots:
      • Increasing polemics against Baal, Asherah, and other Canaanite deities mark a conscious rejection of older shared religious heritage.

      • Prophets promote ethical monotheism and covenantal loyalty to Yahweh alone.
    • Assyrian Threat (8th c. BCE):
      • Prophets such as Hosea and Isaiah recast Yahweh as a universal god, not merely a tribal deity.
    5. Babylonian Exile (586–538 BCE)
    • Monotheism Solidified:
      • The trauma of exile triggers rejection of other gods.

      • Isaiah 44:6: “I am the first and the last; there is no god but Me.”

      • Yahweh absorbs roles of defeated deities (e.g., Marduk); Genesis 1 reflects Babylonian creation motifs.
    • Final Break from Canaanite Religion:
      • Post-exilic texts reinterpret history to emphasize Yahweh’s exclusivity and condemn all earlier idolatry.

      • Editing of texts (e.g., Deuteronomistic History) retroactively imposes monotheism on Israel’s past.
    6. Second Temple Period (538 BCE–70 CE)
    • Yahweh as Abstract and Universal:
      • Idolatry is rejected; Yahweh has no physical representation.

      • Satan emerges as a subordinate adversary—possibly influenced by Zoroastrian dualism.

      • In the Hellenistic era, Yahweh is equated with Theos, the Greek philosophical God.
    • Ethnic and Religious Self-Definition:
      • Jews increasingly distinguish themselves through Torah observance, circumcision, Sabbath, and dietary laws.

      • These practices serve as identity boundaries against Greek, Persian, and Roman cultures.
    7. Rabbinic Judaism (70 CE–Present)
    • Post-Temple Theology:
      • Worship centers on Torah study and ethical conduct, not sacrifice.

      • Kabbalah reimagines God as Ein Sof—infinite, without attributes or form.

      • Jewish identity remains rooted in Yahweh’s covenant and law, distinct from neighboring religions.
    Key Evolutionary Shifts
    1. From Polytheism to Monotheism:
      • Yahweh begins as a local tribal god → becomes the only God.
    2. From Warrior to Universal Judge:
      • Yahweh starts as a storm/war god (Exodus 15:3) → becomes a god of justice and ethics (Micah 6:8).
    3. From Physical to Abstract:
      • Early imagery includes “Yahweh’s feet” on the Ark → eventually understood as omnipresent and incorporeal.
    4. From Canaanite Kin to Separate People:
      • Early Israelites were culturally Canaanite → but over time, developed a distinct religious and ethnic identity through Yahweh worship, legal codes, and rejection of idolatry.
    Modern Jewish Concept of God
    • Monotheistic: No rivals, no partners, no physical form.

    • Ethical: Emphasis on covenant, justice, and repentance.

    • Mystical: In Kabbalistic thought, God’s essence (Ein Sof) is unknowable and infinite.
    Suggested Further Exploration
    • How did Zoroastrianism influence the development of Jewish monotheism?

    • In what ways did archaeological finds (like Kuntillet Ajrud or the Merneptah Stele) reshape modern understanding of early Israelite religion?
     
    #543     Jun 27, 2025
  4. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    One might of course then ask ok, so if what we know as Jewish crystallized about the same time as Christianity, what was the spin on the ball that made Islam different? Well Mohammad had his own tribal pantheon to merge.

    The early history of Arab tribal gods is a fascinating blend of indigenous desert religion, astral cults, and influences from neighboring empires like Mesopotamia, Persia, and the Levant. Here's a concise overview of what we know:

    1. Nature of Pre-Islamic Arabian Religion
    Polytheistic and Tribal
    • Religion in pre-Islamic Arabia (roughly before the 7th century CE) was polytheistic and decentralized.

    • Each tribe often had its own patron deity or spirit (called ilah, plural alihah).

    • Worship was tied to natural forces (sun, moon, stars, rain), local shrines, and sacred stones.
    2. Key Deities in the Arabian Pantheon
    Allah
    • Originally not unique to Islam — the name "Allah" was used pre-Islamically to refer to a high creator god, above the tribal deities.

    • He was remote and not the focus of worship, similar to the Greek Zeus in later Hellenism.

    • Quran confirms Meccan polytheists knew of Allah but associated “partners” (shirk) with him.
    Al-Lāt
    • A fertility and mother goddess, possibly linked to grain and the earth.

    • Worshipped in Ta’if, near Mecca.

    • Her name means "The Goddess" (possibly a feminine form of "Allah").
    Al-‘Uzzá
    • Associated with the morning star (Venus).

    • Worshipped near Nakhlah; had a sanctuary with sacred trees.

    • Probably the most venerated goddess among the Quraysh, Muhammad’s tribe.
    Manāt
    • A goddess of fate and death, worshipped along the pilgrimage route to Mecca.

    • Her cult was older and more established in Yathrib (Medina).
    Together, these three — Al-Lāt, Al-‘Uzzá, and Manāt — were referred to in the Qur’an (53:19–20) as the "daughters of Allah," a concept explicitly rejected in Islam.

    3. Sacred Sites and Objects
    The Kaaba (Mecca)
    • Long before Islam, the Kaaba was a pan-Arab religious center.

    • Housed hundreds of idols, including tribal gods and deified ancestors.

    • Maintained by the Quraysh tribe, it attracted pilgrims even before Muhammad.
    Sacred Stones and Trees
    • Many Arabian deities were aniconic — represented by unworked stones (ḥajar) or standing stones (nusub).

    • Some gods were worshipped via natural features — trees, springs, caves — not human-like statues.
    4. Sources of Evidence
    Literary Sources
    • The Qur’an and Hadiths are major sources — often polemical, but historically revealing.

    • Early Islamic historians like Ibn al-Kalbi (Kitab al-Asnam, "The Book of Idols", 9th c. CE) documented pre-Islamic gods and practices.
    Archaeological Evidence
    • Inscriptions in South Arabian script (Sabaean, Minaean, etc.) reveal names of gods and rituals.

    • Nabataean and Palmyrene sites show a fusion of Arabian and Greco-Roman deities (e.g., Dushara = Dionysus/Bacchus).

    • Temples found in modern-day Yemen, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia (e.g., Qaryat al-Faw).
    5. Cultural and Foreign Influences
    • South Arabia (Yemen) had organized kingdoms (e.g., Saba, Himyar) and worshipped deities like:
      • Almaqah (moon god)

      • Shams (sun goddess)
    • Northern tribes were influenced by:
      • Mesopotamian gods

      • Aramaean religion

      • Roman and Greek gods (via trade and frontier settlements)
    Summary: The Pre-Islamic Arabian Religious World
    • Polytheistic, with localized deities, sacred objects, and rituals.

    • Some gods (like Allah) served as vague creator figures, while most worship centered on tribal protectors and fertility gods.

    • Islam emerged in this context but radically redefined it — rejecting idolatry, demoting all other gods to falsehoods, and elevating Allah as the one true God.
     
    #544     Jun 27, 2025
  5. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    Astronauts gaze down and see a blue marble, experience overview effect, no borders, no purpose, just weather. Historians do the same but in reverse, staring into the layers of time and realizing that everyone, everywhere, was making it up as they went. Kingdoms collapse, gods evolve, flags change color, and yet people still argue over parking spaces. The truth is, the world is small, history is long, and meaning is a costume we forget we’re wearing.

    Main Argument Summary:
    1. The Jews Were Originally Canaanites
      • Early Israelites weren’t invaders or outsiders but emerged from within Canaanite society.
      • Over time, they diverged culturally and religiously, especially through exclusive Yahweh worship.
    2. Judaism Crystallized Post-Exile
      • What we call “Judaism” today — with monotheism, law, and a non-physical God — is a product of the Babylonian exile and its aftermath, not Moses’ time.
      • This means Judaism, as we know it, emerged at roughly the same historical moment as Christianity.
    3. Islam Is a Similar Process, But from a Different Starting Point
      • Muhammad had his own pantheon and tribal religious culture to contend with.
      • Islam emerged as a revolutionary simplification and rejection of idolatry, just as Judaism had earlier.
    4. All These Religions Are Historically Contingent
      • What seem like eternal truths today were, at the time, cultural negotiations, shaped by crisis, politics, geography, and myth.
    5. The Final Post (the astronaut metaphor)
      • This ties it together with a dose of absurdist perspective.
      • Just as astronauts realize how small Earth is, historians realize how ephemeral and invented our sacred truths are — and yet we go on arguing over them as if they were absolute.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2025
    #545     Jun 27, 2025
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  6. They've really moved the goal post



    upload_2025-6-27_22-16-43.png
     
    #546     Jun 27, 2025
    Tuxan and gwb-trading like this.
  7. themickey

    themickey

    House Republicans have the belief they are bringing Tehran back to negotiating table.
    Tehran has the belief dealing with Trump and house Republicans is dealing with a snake.
     
    #547     Jun 28, 2025
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  8. Well it is a fact:cool:
     
    #548     Jun 28, 2025
    EdgeHunter likes this.
  9. Are you luciferian?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2025
    #549     Jun 28, 2025
  10. Oh, you are making the argument that Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. Therefore Palestinians (Arabs) are colonizers and have no right to the land. Good point!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2025
    #550     Jun 28, 2025