Islam and Wife Beatings?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by ShoeshineBoy, Apr 18, 2004.

  1. Ironic how most Americans really have no clue about Islamic culture. Yes, a Muslim guy isn't respected as a 'real man' unless he does the 'honorable thing' and beats his wife regularly.

    90-something percent of Egypian Muslim girls have their clitoris amputated (no anetsthetic) at the onset of puberty. If an Arab Muslim woman has pre-marital sex, her direct family (Father and brothers) MUST murder her in order to restore the family honor.

     
  2. Beatings with a rod... clitoral amputation... one thing the article doesn't mention... the women actually enjoy it.

    //shrug//

    to
     
  3. I admit I'm ignorant...

    Any idea how much of this attitude toward women is in the Koran?
     
  4. The topic of Islamic misogyny is clearly explained by columnist Jamie Glazov:

    The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=246


    Atta’s Rage Rooted in Islam’s Misogyny:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=244

    "In Islam, males are taught to control desire (shahwa). Women are the incarnation of shahwa. Shahwa comes from the devil. It becomes clear, therefore, why the association of shahwa, the devil and woman is rife throughout Islamic religious literature.

    Imam Ibn al-Jawzi taught that female beauty was a manifestation of the devil himself. In his text Dhamm al-hawa, he wrote that the "beauty of women is one of the poisoned arrows of the devil." It is no wonder, therefore, why Islam teaches that hell is largely populated by women. According to a hadith (the record of the sayings of Prophet Muhammad) in Imam Bukhari’s Al-Sahih, the Prophet Muhammad states that, as he stood at the gate of hell, he observed that, "Most of those who entered there were women."



    Islam’s Hatred of the Clitoris:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=241


    To Love a Baby Girl:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=240

    Afghan Women: Free at Last?

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=187

    Fighting Islam's Gender Apartheid:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12290


    These articles truly do explain alot. Only the most hopeless cultural relativist (His initials are A.R.T.) will have trouble understanding the concept of deep rooted Islamic misogyny, and that the culture of terrorism and murder are an inevitable result of this.
     
  5. THE QURAN AND ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING



    I present 6 English versions of the Quran from chapter 4, called Nisa (Women), verse 34. I provided all these not to be redundant but to show how similar the versions are. These translations are all from recognized scholars. I have corrected some archaic spelling. My comments are in [ ] type brackets.





    TEXT FROM THE QURAN, 4:34





    RODWELL [1]: "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"



    ['Refractoriness' means hard or impossible to manage, stubbornly disobedient'].





    DAWOOD [2]: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme."





    PICKTHALL [3]: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."



    ARBERRY [4]: "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."





    SHAKIR [5]: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.





    ALI [6]: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all).







    I placed Ali's version last because I have an important comment to make on his translation. Ali knew he was writing for a Western audience and that wife beating is viewed as brutal in the West. Consequently, Ali inserted many of his own words into the Quran’s text in order to make it less harsh. This was deceptive on Ali's part. Ali inserted his comments at 9 different places in the 4:34 text. I've done a quick review through Ali's Quran, and have not found any other verse with that many insertions. Clearly something was troubling him to cause him to add so much. Notice not one other translation has anything remotely near "lightly" when talking about the physical beating a man is supposed to give his wife. Ali was in part a Muslim apologist and his work here was meant to hide and soften the Quran’s real meaning.



    I note that Muslim apologists like Ali frequently say that the beating should be 'light'. But in the context of the Quran it has to be severe enough to bring her into obedience. And it must produce a stronger psychological effect that verbal chastisement and sexual desertion produce. In other words - it's got to hurt. But the husband is not to whip her like a slave or severely injure the wife.


    ANALYSIS

    The Quran lists a progression of steps to be used in dealing with a rebellious wife:


    1) The husband is to verbally admonish her
    2) If that fails the husband is to sexually desert his wife
    3) If both measures above fail the husband is exhorted to physically beat his wife.


    [NOTE: It must be noted that obedience to her husband is not required if he orders her to do something sinful, causes her physical pain, or something she is incapable of doing].

    This passage in the Quran lays the foundation for wife beating. Without it, the case for beating the wife would be somewhat weaker. Wife beating is amply testified in the Hadith, but having a corroborating verse in the Quran places the permissible action of wife beating on a solid foundation.

    As I pointed out in the introduction, do not focus only on the command to beat the disobedient wife, also examine the superior position the man has over the woman. Review the beginning of the verse --- men are “superior”, men have “authority”, men are “in charge”, men are “the managers”, men are “the maintainers”. Clearly, Muhammad put the man over the wife, he is her custodian, he responsibly maintains her, she obeys him. That is a foundational premise in an Islamic marriage.



    "A women complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, (which was still marked by the slap). At first the prophet said to her: "Get even with him", but then added: "Wait until I think about it". Later on, Allah supposedly revealed 4:34 to Muhammad, after which the prophet said: "We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best". [To beat your wife is best.]



    http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm
     
  6. ..."but RM", you say..."your sources are all biased against Islam!"


    Nope. Islam is biased against humanity.
    This from the <b>United Nations</b>:

    Many Youth Accept Honor Killings, Wife-Beating, U.N. Survey Shows


    Wednesday, December 18, 2002


    A UNICEF survey released yesterday indicates significant numbers of children and teen-agers in Jordan are ignorant of the rights and protections accorded Jordanians under the law, particularly as pertains to gender.

    Among 15- to 19-year-olds surveyed, only 76.2 percent of males and 69.2 percent of females knew men and women have equal rights under Jordan's laws, 43.3 percent of males and 28.5 percent of females said husbands have the right to beat disobedient wives, and 44.5 percent of males and 35.9 percent of females said family members have the right to carry out "honor killings" of female relatives.

    Cultural constraints, the authors said, lead to the exclusion of Jordan's girls from public life, including civil society groups and labor, and the vast majority of Jordanian women over 20 do not work for pay.

    The report also indicates that low incomes have hindered the entrepreneurial spirit among boys, and boys and girls alike demonstrated little experience in participating actively in a democracy, in part because Jordanian education provides no models of such behavior.

    The authors called for a review of gendered educational tracking and a national plan to reinforce children's knowledge of the Jordanian Constitution, peace and democracy.

    UNICEF and its partners surveyed a sample of 10- to 24-year-olds, a group that constitutes 33 percent of Jordan's population (Dalya Dajani, Jordan Times, Dec. 18).

    http://www.unwire.org/unwire/20021218/31030_story.asp

    Note that this poll was taken in secular 'progressive' Jordan. One would expect even more horrifying results in an oppressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia.
     
  7. jebara

    jebara Guest

    Hey before you go getting your information on Islam, stay away from worldnetdaily.com they are a very conservative site that is anti-muslim and anti arab. Just view there past articles and you will see them all to be negative and bordering on being absurd.
     
  8. Well, most modern accounts of WW2 tend to be very 'biased' against Germany. No idea why.


    Rearden, I know man, more than a few skeletons in Islam's closet. Thing is, as much as we might wish it to, that religion isn't just gonna disappear into thin air. Only hope is to reform it. I mean, Jews had their reform movement, which I think was a good thing. Islam desperately needs its own. One thing which kinda makes it tough, as I've said before, is that the Koran is supposed to the verbatim transcript of God talking. So it's a lot harder to 're-interpret' than, for example, the bible (which was written by "fallible men"). Still, there are signs of it happening, which is encouraging. What would really accelerate the process is if arabs got their economies motoring along. There's a lot less time to spend hating and being a religious bigot when there's money to be made. (I don't think Saudi Arabia really counts here, 'cos they basically fell ass backward into that pot of black gold.)
     
  9. Great research - I appreciate it. As I mentioned, I had never heard about this aspect of Islam.

    What is the "hadith"? I did a little googling and it looks like it is the equivalent of the Jewish rabinnical interpretations that followed the Jewish scripture, i.e. Talmud?
     
    #10     Apr 18, 2004