Is watching Time and Sales useful at all?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by CyJackX, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    It would seem with spoofing or otherwise, or the fact that at any moment either side could get taken out faster than you can blink, there's no real way to get useful information from this. It may seem like one side may be weaker, but the edge in that is not perceptible for humans, I'd think.
     
  2. Ryan81

    Ryan81

    I only find it useful on securities that are very thinly traded... Often will look at it when considering some corporate bonds.
     
  3. ET180

    ET180

    CyJackX, are you thinking of limit orders placed and then quickly cancelled with the intent of manipulating the order book? How does one spoof with actual trades?
     
  4. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Watching time and sales is somewhat like watching volume ie it's too much information and unnecessary.
     
  5. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    You're right, I conflated the DOM with T&S, but I guess my concerns are really with either. They are both involved with volume, but on short timeframes, there is no truly consistent volume.
     
  6. ET180

    ET180

    I don't consider open orders on the order book to be volume. I like to consider that as simply order size, but I never really pay attention to it as they don't change exposure to a given product. I looked at bid / ask many years ago (Market Delta), but couldn't find it predictive of price. Price can move up on very little volume (executed trades) as open orders are cancelled, the order book will offer little resistance. I thought about making an indicator that combines option put / call volume with underlying volume in order to determine a more clear picture of exposure to a given product, but haven't gotten around to that. Understanding the change in total (derivative volume + underlying) exposure might be predictive of price.
     
  7. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    So you used market deltas footprint charting? Where it charts the t&s within the bars?
     
  8. I find it useful for the following reasons:
    1) How active is the market
    2) How close are the actual prices versus the mark price versus the bid/ask
    3) To see why my bid is not being accepted (i.e, I bid 0.02 and it was 0.02 but just ticked up to 0.03 and only two other bids got accepted at 0.02 before ticking up so I must be in a queue somewhere).
    4) To realize the market is open (flurry of sales versus trickle before market opens)
     
  9. algofy

    algofy

    I have never been able to make use of it but I believe some short term futures traders make their living solely from it.
     
    eusdaiki likes this.
  10. ET180

    ET180

    Technically I did not use Market Delta, but I tried to make my own indicator in an attempt to reverse engineer it. I basically plotted 2 horizontal volume bars at each price level where trading took place. I also color coded the two bars to designate how many trades took place at the bid (red) or ask (blue). It looked similar to this, but each box contained two bars:

    [​IMG]

    I didn't find it to be very helpful though because more trades occurred at the bid as price was going down and more trades occurred at the ask as price was going up. So it mirrored price movement rather than predicted it. From there my studies turned toward market profile.
     
    #10     Feb 17, 2017
    CALLumbus and wave like this.