Is trading Gambling or not .."What say You" Vote here.

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by ElectricSavant, Apr 10, 2005.

Is Trading Gambling or not

This poll will close on Jan 12, 2060 at 11:25 AM.
  1. Gambling

    460 vote(s)
    35.0%
  2. Not Gambling

    854 vote(s)
    65.0%
  1. Trading is gambling. Investing, however, is not.

    Investing is the deployment of money into an asset based on an evaluation of micro- and macroeconomic conditions with the expectation of asset growth.

    Trading is the purchase and sale of securities based on speculation of market price action, market inefficiencies, arbitrage opportunities and so on. Trading always involves a "bet" on price direction or volatility.

    A revealing clue on investing vs. trading as gambling comes with inspecting the tools of the trade. Investors pore over SEC reports, annual reports, market surveys, etc. Traders have colorful screens that blink and light up.

    I prefer trading. It's more fun :)
     
    #381     Oct 18, 2005
  2. NKNY

    NKNY

    Gambling is to a casino.... as trading is to a Good trader.


    Some have argued that any outcome which is uncertain is gambling... I disagree...Do casinos gamble.... all their outcomes are certainly not certain...They simply have a slight edge...just like a good trader "should"...

    For example, the house has a 1.4 % edge on Pass/Don't pass at the crap table...(MY GAME) this can be further reduced with taking odds depending on the point and odds allowed at the casino. Every individual bet is an uncertain event for the casino and player alike. Just like every individual trade is an uncertain event to a good trader. However all bets (Trades) combined over a given time period are almost certain to show a profit to the one who holds this slight edge. The longer the time period and/or the more bets played the better the odds are for showing a profit.

    A good trader trading a model that has a positive expectancy puts himself in the same situation as the house. Will he win them all, no... but he will win more then he loses (not necessarily more times) and should be profitable after enough play time.

    A trader trading without a positive expectancy is gambling. He is the customer in the largest casino of them all.


    Nick
     
    #382     Oct 18, 2005
  3. mindfull

    mindfull

    What one be correct to say that in gambling the structure and odds don't change?

    In trading systems, the situation is in greater flux. Has anyone experienced a system that used to work go belly up? The market seemed to change and the system does not work anymore. It may even work again one day, 'but you never know'.
     
    #383     Oct 18, 2005
  4. kotika

    kotika

    sorry if anyone mentioned this already but in Canada, gambling winnings are not taxable while investment gains are. The tell, according to the law and upheld by courts is the <b>reasonable expectation of profit</B>

    isnt that funny? what if i am a card counter and go to the casino with the expectation of an edge, and fully expecting to win?

    for those of you who think trading, gambling and investing are all different things, read some writings of Bill Ziemba, Ed Thorp, or if you are a scientist by education read the original paper by Kelly (1956). Thorp in the guy who first invented card counting for blackjack, then went on to discover the appropriate method for convertible arb, and later short-term mean reversion. The reason you never might heard of him as hedge fund manager is that he never blew up, or perhaps because he only took mathematically calculated gambles and never something the newspapers would write about like betting agaist the british pound, malaysian currency etc.

    So to answer your question, yes professional trading and professional gambling are the same. And random, haphazard variety of trading and gambling is also the same.

    K
     
    #384     Oct 18, 2005
  5. mindfull

    mindfull

    So only investors get penalized. :D
     
    #385     Oct 18, 2005
  6. mogul

    mogul

    sums it up perfectly
     
    #386     Oct 18, 2005
  7. gnome

    gnome

    Totally illogical. Hogwash.
     
    #387     Oct 18, 2005
  8. And yet here we are, pondering and considering it. Personally, I'm not that concerned with what other people do. In any event, I suspect we both largely see it the same way but are using different words to describe it.
     
    #388     Oct 18, 2005

  9. excellent post. i am impressed, dog.

    surfer:)
     
    #389     Oct 18, 2005
  10. bighog

    bighog Guest

    Investing is holding onto the losers....:D
     
    #390     Oct 18, 2005