Is this silly or what. am I supposed to help an automator to put me out of work?

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by ElectricSavant, Oct 1, 2006.

Automation. Will it put Retail traders out of a job?

  1. Yes

    20 vote(s)
  2. No

    61 vote(s)
  3. Haven't really decided

    6 vote(s)
  1. How many of you feel automation is truly using the computer as the tool it really is and the old time traders days are numbered?

    As they say anything can be automated even discretion!

    Michael B.
  2. Nattdog


    retail trading is not a job.

    automation or not... its pointless to discuss. either you make it or lose it. You choose your tools to best of ability... yet most are lazy, see the future of technology as a threat.. punch card union shop mentality...

    Untill the software chooses not to share the profit with humans.. its just trading.. your money to make or lose. automation just a tool, giving the trader greater intellectual and operational leverage.
  3. But if I am not a programmer and I do not aspire to be...then do I need to hire one...or am I now a backwoods, lazy, inferior trader, because I do not use the latest tools or technology?

    Is "trading" the use of technology?

    Michael B.
  4. Nattdog


    speculative trading is the attempt to buy and sell for a net profit over a relevent period of time with some consistency.

    historically, the early adoption of technology has been a halmark of innovative business that have been able to sustain an above average return on capital over time.

    If you are conceptually doing something that makes sense and are willing to assume risk, it does not matter if it is click of a button or automationed program. U use the tools available to you to the best of your ability, then u plunge in and take meaningful risk.

    most, are not willing to do the groundwork, to create the sound base of operations, sophistication, and knowledge, the things that are not fun but you do them anyway...

    IF all this is achieved, , can one still stomach the risk even though the skills learned to trade could also earn you a nice "safe" living employed elsewhere? there are few who can. The combination of willpower, intellectual ability, and stomach for risk.. all roled into one person, are very unusual..

    most are better of finding a more specific nitch that is less taxing on the entire being... say, as a researcher, programmer, analyst.. a more specific, less all encompasing role.

    So as to your questions... u tell us?

    If you results say u are obsolete, then you are. Regardless, u are either doing all that u can to succeed, and all that is nessisary, or you are not. grey areas and "shades" in this care are just shades of dishonesty.
  5. One more question. If automated machines proliferate does it effect the ranges, as it did in the ES?

    Michael B.
  6. Nattdog


    size of range? 2001 and bear markets made end user of investment products timid... equals timid managers.. private traders timmid too. all scared of pain. different times, different market.. nervious nelly different opponent than sam swashbuckler. can't use same strategy against both..

    the cause and effect of it all is a guess on my part. don't have the answers. range? automated trading? Why assume if one does not need to?

    In the past It was said automated trading exasterbated moves. hurd effect of systems. that was a convenient belief at one time... what is convenient to believe now?? "they say" it was a different time - different strategy being discussed.. end result..
    i don't know...

    we shall see... then make up the right answer after the fact.. isn't that how it works?

    The form keeps changing.
  7. There is a big difference between "developing a system" and automation, in my mind. We have traders (not programmers) who have great trading ideas...some have paid programmers to expand their capacity for more trades or more markets. One group spent upwards of $50K over a 6 month period with programmers....same group has made over $1Mil with what they have.

    I don't think programs per se' do it all, it still takes constant "tweaking".

    My simple little opening only strategy has done really well when automated, simply because I can use 50 or 100 stocks vs. the 10-15 that I used to use.

    Remember the day that you had to go to an exchange to be able to trade (or worse yet, call a broker).?

    Things change, we adapt to what we want to adapt to IMO.

    All the best,

  8. promagma


    There is a tendency to rely on the computer too much, and start thinking in terms of what is easy to code up, rather than thinking outside the box.... although, dabbling in automated systems can be valuable to acquire a knowledge base about how different types of ideas tend to pan out, so you can think outside the box more intelligently. As always there is a myriad of ways to make money in the markets.
  9. I have bit my tongue long enough. I treat my RETAIL TRADING as a business. I trade RETAIL SPOT FOREX.

    What a bold statement (below) to make that slaps the face of thousand of serious retail traders.

    What is a job? can one be self employed and have a job? can one work part time and have a job?, whether its a W-2 or 1099?

    Does the nature of the activity dictate whether its a job?....If you volunteer to do something...could that be a job? gainful employment is not the description of a job in my book.

    I have to disagree. I have a job, I am a Retail Trader.

    retail trading is not a job.
  10. foible


    If you ever nail down a strategy well enough that you can specify all (or most) of the parameters, then you can automate it. This will let you expand the number of stocks, increase your number of trades, increase your response time, and ensure you are sticking with your trading rules.

    Once one strategy is automated, you can focus your mental energy on locating or developing another strategy. That way the computer can do the drudgery and you can focus on the high-value tasks.

    'Course, in my former life I was a programmer and still spend half of my time writing little helper programs - scanners, record keepers, position managers and so on. I don't have the program fully managing any strategy yet, but because of the programs, I am far more consistent than I would be on my own.

    Yes, it would take you a while to learn how to program if you don't have any background. But it took you a while to learn how to trade. You have tackled a very difficult profession on your own and become successful, at least there are many, many books and web sites that will help you learn how to program :)
    #10     Oct 3, 2006