Is This A Terrorist Strike In The United States?

fxtrading · Apr 25, 2004

Quote from rgelite:

This caught my attention; thank you.

While I was able to find information blasting PVC on a lot of pro environmental sites, green guides, friends of the earth, greenpeace, etc., oddly enough there was nothing for PVC (or polyvinyl chloride, or vinyl as it's colloquially known) in the U.S. government's HAZMAT directory. And there's a lot listed in that directory of immediate consequence to protecting public safety.

http://hazmat.dot.gov/erg2000/psnsort.htm

Furthermore, as aphie thoroughly posted, PVC is (and has been for decades) commonly used in construction, furniture, toys, etc. Vinyl siding, anyone? In other words, it's everywhere.

So it seemed reasonable for me to question whether PVC gives off "hydrogen cyanide gas" since the same government HAZMAT site insists that extreme measures be taken when dealing with the release of such gas, even a small amount; it's very toxic. Such precautions include evacuating everyone within 200 meters of its release (within 1 mile if bulk transport), wearing complete protective suits, etc. Would seem a bit unusual if at nearly every home and commercial fire citizens anywhere near the blaze were dropping in the streets like flies, clutching their throats gasping for air as cyanide poisoning rapidly blocked their bodies' oxygen utilization.

It would surely preempt Fox News' usual coverage of criminal car chases. "Look, dear, Fox is running another neighborhood fire and cyanide disaster. Hey, that house has vinyl siding! Look, there's a tell-tale sign--the first firemen on the scene have already died; they weren't suited up when their trucks rolled in. Let's see if we can beat our old body count of 150 neighbors dead in the streets trying to flee." Humorous? Not really. Note here in the reference below that only 300 ppm (parts per million) are enough to kill a human being in minutes. Surely that's something we'd all have noticed by now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

Perhaps PVC gives off other toxins when burned, as do many products. (As do exploding volcanoes and in larger quantities than the entire combined history of modern industrialization.) I'm not a specialist in hazmat nor a chemist and I invite other comments more knowledgable about it than I am. For starters, I would like to examine the source of the claim that "burning PVC releases hydrogen cyanide gas" and then trace back its references to empirical studies.

Not referring to fxtrading with my next comment; it might be an error that was posted, or maybe I don't understand the chemistry. But on principle, the problem with environmentalists is that ultimately they are nihilists; which is to say, they're their own worst enemy--they hate themselves. And by saying anything to justify an agenda, they end up saying nothing.
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yep my bust -pvc gives off hydrogen chloride, dioxins and phosgene gas

dougcs · Apr 25, 2004

Quote from fxtrading:

and when PVC burns it gives off a nice deadly hydrogen cyanide gas that is explosive at concentrations over 56,000 ppm
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Prior to becoming a daytrader, I managed a large PVC plant. When PVC burns it releases hydrogen chloride gas not the highly toxic hydrogen cyanide gas.

Hydrogen chloride gas, HCl, when mixed with water results in hydrochloric acid or muriatic acid. It is not explosive but a very strong irritant and corrosive. Inhalation will damage your lungs.
It has many common uses, cleaning concrete, toliet bowl cleaner, etc. Look at the label on your toliet bowl cleaner and you will find it.

For more on the real dangers:

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cach...orp-pvc.pdf+pvc+msds+data+sheet+georgia&hl=en

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cach....pdf+hydrochloric+acid+msds+data+sheet+&hl=en

DS

IntelHack · Apr 26, 2004

Keep a keen eye on Texas, particularly Houston and its refineries and chem plants. An al-qaida plan has been uncovered that includes 2 primary focuses: Texas refineries & Chemical plants and logging industries in the Pacific Northwest.

Do you remember the inexplicable rash of wildfires that ranged from California to New Mexico to Wyoming? Only one was officially explained and that was an angry forestry employee with marriage problems. The rest? Voodoo...who knows. If you are paying attention, in southern California a Pakistani 'student' was arrested soon after the fires and is still in custody with very dirty hands. It would not be a stretch to speculate on the rest, would it?

Do you remember that at the same time France and Australia had their own rashes of wildfires?

al-qaida has a plan for America that is purely economic. No more wasting ever more precious resources on landmarks. They know we have very few refineries that all operate at max or near-max capacity as a result. Their plan has been to insert via Mexico for operations. But DoHS has the border taken care of, right?

The second economic prong is a low-risk/high-reward strategy that allows for several operatives to ignite 5-gallon fuel cans of gasoline in the commercially managed forests of Washington and Oregon. Virtually unpreventable. Think about the simplicity. Think of the anonymity. Just 20 well placed tanks in the hearts of the top 4 producers' forests.

What al-qaida has not considered fully is that commercially managed forests will not 'explode' with the ferocity of the brush-laden tinderboxes of California and New Mexico, especially those in the damp northwest. So their level of destructive success (I believe they are responsible for the 3 continents' wildfire rashes) will not translate quite so directly in Washington state.

Long post, I know...sorry for that....but pay attention. The information is there to answer your own questions.

Call it industry research if you like, but pay attention.

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Is This A Terrorist Strike In The United States?

fxtrading

dougcs

IntelHack