Is the economy doomed?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by Bhr17, May 27, 2022.

  1. Tokenz

    Tokenz

    Ezekiel 7:19 "“‘They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will become abhorrent to them. Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them"...
     
    #11     May 28, 2022
    Trader Curt likes this.
  2. zdreg

    zdreg

    Bottom line is the 30 minute video sufficient for all those who do not have the need for "exhaustive" detail?
     
    #12     May 28, 2022
  3. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Is the economy doomed?

    -Yes but we will survive just like all the times before.
     
    #13     May 28, 2022
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  4. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    No offense @Barron, but not a fan of Ray Dalio. He might have some point on how economic cycles work but these theories are hardly new and he's some ulterior motives in doling these economic theories. And he himself is not even a good practitioner of what he preaches.
     
    #14     May 28, 2022
    Handle123 likes this.
  5. piezoe

    piezoe

    The Ray Dalio video Baron posted is excellent in almost all respects, except Dalio gets the role of the Central bank not quite right and he makes one horrible mistake when he says or suggests that the Central Bank (our Fed) loans money to the Government (@25.35). This is of course impossible, since the Central Bank is a part of Government, which Dalio correctly points out early in his video (@ 3:00).* So, of course, if the Central bank is a part of government, and I assure you it is, it can not loan the Government money, as that would be the same as loaning itself money. The Central bank does "print" new money in the sense that it is a key player in the creation of new money. But it doesn't get to decide how much new money to "print". Only Congress gets to decide that. Note that the majority of the video deals with temporary money created by private sector banks. This is the money that economists call "inside money" and we call it "credit". The kind of money Dalio says the Fed is printing late in the video is what is called "outside" money but it doesn't represent new money. That operation he is referring to simply exchanges one kind of money, bank reserves, for Treasuries. It is not creating any new money. The only time new money gets created occurs when the Fed covers a Treasury overdraft caused by one of Congress's deficits. This too is Outside money, not credit money.

    It seems one thing that concerns you is this thing called, erroneously, the "National Debt". There is a fundamental misunderstanding rife among U.S. citizens and very common among classically trained economists as well. This misunderstanding must be cleared-up before any intelligent discourse about what we call the National Debt can take place.

    What we call the National Debt is actually the sum of total cumulative net government spending minus total cumulative net government revenue. You'll recognize that difference as our total U.S. deficit. The total principle value of all outstanding Treasury securities equals to the penny the Total deficit at the present time. This sure makes the auction of Treasuries look like borrowing! But it isn't. No wonder everyone thinks the U.S. borrows to spend.

    Now, are you sitting down? I hope you are. Because although there are Trillions of U.S Treasury Securities in the World's economy, there is actually no national debt. The U.S. does not borrow to spend. It always prints the additional money it needs to cover its spending in excess of its revenues. It never borrows!

    The "printing" occurs when the Fed credits the Treasury's reserve account with the amount needed to cover a Treasury overdraft caused by spending more than revenues received. This keeps the Treasury's checks from bouncing. Then later, sometimes much later, the Treasury auctions off Securities in the exact amount of its overdrafts. What this does is bring right back to the Treasury the amount of money it just spent in overdraft! At the same time the private sector receives Treasury securities with a combined principle equal to the amount of money removed from bank reserve accounts and credited to the Treasury's reserve account.

    That's it. There is no borrowing between the private sector and the Government in this entire operation. The net result is no change in bank reserve balances, an increase in private sector assets in the form of Treasuries, an equivalent the amount of deficit spending the Government engaged in, and a transfer of private sector assets to the government in the amount of the deficit.

    The new money started out as a crediting of the Treasury's reserve account in the amount of the deficit, and ended up as new money in the private sector not in the readily spendable form as bank reserves but instead as non-readily spendable money side tracked in the form of U.S. Treasury securities. No borrowing! There is no National debt. Nothing has to be repaid. And the Nation is not going bankrupt. Yippee!

    ______________________
    *Dalio obviously did not recognize that he had set up a situation in which the government would be loaning money to itself. Overall I like Dalio's video very much. Dalio, just like nearly everyone of his generation, does not understand correctly Central Bank/Treasury operations, nor the critical role Congress plays in the creation of new money. He, like most of his generation, including many Economists!, think the Fed just decides on its own to create new money. The Fed is just the facilitator authorized to "print" new money on behalf of Congress and the Treasury. The Constitution gives the power to create new money only to Congress (i.e., "coin money.")
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
    #15     May 28, 2022
  6. piezoe

    piezoe

    Baron, please see my response to Bhr17.
     
    #16     May 28, 2022
  7. zdreg

    zdreg

    There should be plague on both houses Congress and the Fed for ruining the US.
     
    #17     May 29, 2022
  8. piezoe

    piezoe

    Would you prefer we go back to the era when the United States had a real national debt? There was no fed then , and no income tax!!! Do you enjoy riding horses. If so, you might like to go back to those days. You'd just have to be careful not to get an infection while working around the barn.

    https://history.state.gov/milestones/1784-1800/loans
     
    #18     May 29, 2022
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  9. zdreg

    zdreg

    Yes. Thank you for articulating my thoughts .
     
    #19     May 29, 2022
    piezoe likes this.
  10. The bible? Seriously?
     
    #20     May 29, 2022
    Real Money likes this.