get real moron, you think Israel would get nukes without US thumbs up You said "we gave them nukes" in your previous post. I am glad you recognize you've made a complete fool out of yourself and don't insist on your idiotic version of history. Nevertheless your latest statement is also incorrect so let me try it once again and slowly: France helped Israel build nukes, not the US. The US was completely out of the loop. It's so well publicized, so well known and undisputed that it's not even funny to read complete garbage posted by clueless ignoramuses like you. and Yes Ron Paul...has guts to say it like it is He has guts to say it like he thinks it is, I'll grant him that. That does not mean that what he thinks is based in reality though. Kinda similar to your thinking that we gave Israel nukes - you said what you believed in but it was based on ignorance, not facts. let me guess you voted bush you fool Wrong guess. As I said before, you need right information.
What is funny, that yet another Paul's supporter has just proven to be a clueless ignorant idiot? I see nothing funny about that. PS I am not a Huckabee man although I may consider voting for him in the end. I'd probably prefer Biden.
Could you explain this bias on Paul's positions? I am not knocking the fact that Paul has some of the wall people. I was just curious to here why you think Paul is of base? I actually like Biden myslef , but will be voting for Paul. Just wanted to hear you rebutals on Pauls's positions. Thanks, I look forward to your reply.
He is a libertarian and I am not a fan of libertarianism, as far as I am concerned it's not much different from anarchism. I don't believe in isolationism and even if he calls it non-interventionism he is still preaching isolationism. I don't believe in the abolishment of the dept of education, the CIA, FBI, IRS, I don't believe in absolutely free markets, I don't believe in the absolute evil of the government, I don't believe it's our own fault that we were attacked on 9/11....In short I don't believe in simplistic and extremist solutions to complicated international, domestic, economic and social problems and these are the kinds of solutions libertarianism tends to offer. Oh did I mention that I don't believe in conspiracy theories he seems to believe in, the fact that all kinds of conspiracy theorists (like RatBoy) flock to him in droves is a huge turn off. BTW my previous posts in this thread were not about Paul or his positions and should not have been interpreted as an attack on him, I just wanted to correct a baseless and incorrect statement made by "open" and it had nothing to do with Ron Paul per se.
See the problem with you like everyone else that bashed Paul is that you misrepresent his positions. In the Spanish debate tonight he talked about trading with Chavez and Cuba and received boos. Who's the isolationist? He does not want to isolate the country from others he doesn't want to intervene in the internal affairs of others. We wouldn't like if foreign countries were messing around with our government and installing bases on our soil. The D of Education didn't exist until 1980. Has education improved since then? How about costs? Again he didn't say Americans were responsible for 9/11 but American foreign policy was responsible. He believes in decentralized government. The more important the issue the more local it should be. Again he's not against intelligence gathering but we had so much info before 9/11 that we did nothing about it. So restructuring the FBI and CIA (which we have no idea what they are really up to) sounds just fine to me. The CIA wasn't created until 1947 and really what is American about secret government agencies? Sounds like something in Nazi Germany or the USSR. But I guess if you just want to keep the status quo and have a bankrupt nation that's fine, but it is foolish to think that things will change when you keep electing people with the same beliefs.
In the Spanish debate tonight he talked about trading with Chavez and Cuba and received boos. Who's the isolationist? He does not want to isolate the country from others he doesn't want to intervene in the internal affairs of others. "isolationism - the policy or doctrine of isolating one's country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one's country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities." So of all these items that constitute the concept of isolationism he does not have a problem with economic commitments. Big deal, clearly on balance his position is still extremely isolationist. We wouldn't like if foreign countries were messing around with our government and installing bases on our soil. With the exception of Iraq our bases are there based on invitations of legitimate and internationally-recognized governments of those countries and international agreements. If they (whoever they are) don't like our bases on their soil they should deal with their governments that invite and sometimes beg us to stay, not with this country. Again he didn't say Americans were responsible for 9/11 but American foreign policy was responsible. Splitting hairs, that's exactly what I meant and that's exactly what I found absurd. Just because some groups disagree with our legal and legitimate policies does not mean that terror attacks on american interests are the fault of our foreign policy. I disagree with foreign policies of Putin, Chavez and many other countries, according to your logic if I were to attack their interests that would be their own fault. So restructuring the FBI and CIA (which we have no idea what they are really up to) sounds just fine to me. Yeah, that sounds fine to me too but that's not what he advocates, he advocates the abolishment of the FBI and CIA The CIA wasn't created until 1947 and really what is American about secret government agencies? Espionage. It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. But I guess if you just want to keep the status quo and have a bankrupt nation that's fine, No, but I don't want to make matters worse. but it is foolish to think that things will change when you keep electing people with the same beliefs. It's equally foolish to think that any anti-government rebel with weird, simplistic and extremist views is the second coming and savior.
Well Switzerland has a highly decentralized government where the cantons have their own constitution and are responsible for rules that fall outside of the federal constitution. Has a small, decentralized government hurt Switzerland? Switzerland has remained neutral throughout its existence. It has avoided alliances. Has their "isolationism" as you like to call it hurt them? Switzerland has the highest median household income. They have been hurt slightly by the EU though because they've had to give up some of their sovereignty to the union. Why did Rome fall, why did Britain fall? All great empires fall because they become too big and wage wars they can't afford and stretch themselves too thin. If you want America to go the way of Rome or Britain or even lose its sovereignty like the Swiss to a NAU then keep thinking how you are thinking. Some the best solutions are the simplest. Just quit overextending ourselves and inciting hatred around the world. It's quite simple. Quit mortgaging our children's future.
I did not interpret them as an attack and I apologize if I came across that way. That being said, I can't speak for anyone but myself. You state that you don't believe in "libertarianism". I would have to ask are you a U.S. citizen? If you are then you obviously don't believe in how this country was founded and became one of the greatest nations on this earth. (the greatest part can be argued) As far as the rest of your uneducated garble. You obvious don't take much value in the truth and facts, which is fine it is a free country. If you want someone to take a lick of seriousness from you though, you can't just babble about what you believe without backing it up, which I am willing and waiting to here. Its kinda like me walking up to a crowd and saying I see dead people. You think they might say "Hey... Really! Where are they? I want to talk to them about some afterlife stuff!"? As far as conspiracy theories I would just love to here these! Please oh please fire away on this! Are we watching a little to much FUX news? Then you obviously don't believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights and so on? That is what you are saying by this statement. If that is true then you don't believe in how this country was founded. Incase you need a dictionary here is the definition. Thought I would save you time. libertarian: Main Entry: lib·er·tar·i·an Pronunciation: Function: noun Date: 1789 1: an advocate of the doctrine of free will 2 a: a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles â libertarian adjective â lib·er·tar·i·an·ism \noun Here is the definition of anarchism. Not sure How it matches with the definition of libertarian. (P.S> there is no word libertarianism...stop watch Bush he rubs of easy) anarchism Main Entry: an·ar·chism Pronunciation: \ˈa-nər-ˌki-zəm, -ˌnär-\ Function: noun Date: 1642 1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups 2 : the advocacy or practice of anarchistic principles Once again I will save you time and post the definition. If you have even listened to Pauls stance you would've heard him say everytime he is against alliances, but not against having relations with them. (oh damn you almost got us) Please don't make me have to explain the difference between relations and alliances! isolationism Main Entry: iso·la·tion·ism Pronunciation: Function: noun Date: 1922 : a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations Ok... I will be nice and throw an old dog a bone on this one just because I don't have the time right now to give you history lessons. Lets see.... I will be nice and give you the CIA, FBI and a total free market. (should prove you wrong on free market, but hell I need to live too) So lets go to the IRS.... The IRS is deemed illegal by our constitution. If you need some proof about it read history 101 books. Ah hell, I will even give you the Government argument since Dr. Paul is a congressman. Don't even get me started on this bullshit. Quit watching FUX News and read the actual transcripts of his statements. Either research the facts or don't make dumbass false statements like this. If you need further information try reading the books at the following location. http://rudysreadinglist.com/ You can also look into the statements of the former Head of the CIA "Osama Binladen" unit. Who said they were simplistic? Once again are you getting simplistic and extremist solutions to complicated international, domestic, economic and social problems from a 2 second bullshit clip from FUX News? (Hell in that case you can add MSNBC, CNBC, ABC, CBS... do I need to go on?) If you think their so simplistic try actually looking for the completed answer. Its not that hard you obviously have internet access! And finally to the last part of your last quoted statement... I am not trying to take these statements out of context in which can be read above. This is what libertarians offer huh? isn't that just your opinion? So, far your opinions are not looking to have much foundation. Do you even know what libertarians even stand for? Maybe you'll learn next time to actually obtain facts before running off at the mouth and and making false accusations of other people. P.S. I would still love to here those conspiracy theories!
It's kind of ironic that you are using the example of Switzerland to promote Ron Paul's ideas. Switzerland, like most of Europe is pretty socialistic, quite the opposite of the libertarian direction Ron Paul advocates for this country. Switzerland has very high personal taxes, total government spending equals more than a third of GDP. BTW their per capita GDP is 20% below this country's per capita GDP - $33,000 in Switzerland and $40,000 in the US. Of course they have free education including higher education, free universal healthcare, many other generous entitlements but these things have nothing in common with Ron Paul's agenda. More importantly, it's very convenient to be neutral, non-interventionist Switzerland. Too bad if it was not for the "interventionism" of the US of A they'd all be speaking German (I know, I know they do speak German). You don't think Hitler would have spared them, do you? Anyway, what works for a small homogeneous country of 7mln people does not work for a huge racially diverse military and economic superpower. While I agree with you on wars, spending and overextension I don't see Ron Paul and/or libertarians offering a realistic and positive solution. Bill Clinton balanced the budget and did not incite hatred around the world, if these issues are so important to you why don't you support his wife. http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Switzerland
you just told me much about yourself personally believe it or not, you won't because it is anonymous msg board but let me elaborate how I know you you are a typical product of United States public education system. you are intelligent and obviously more eloquent and informed about "facts" yet you are missing something you are missing what they can not teach you in public schools (and coincidentally is needed to be a great trader) investigative and questioning personality. if you had this ability you would do research and use your cognitive skills to realize that 9/11 is an inside job that does not represent entire US government when you realize this IF EVER, you will be a very angry man or at the very least disillusioned.