Is leveraging an account with deep ITM calls superior to using cash from your broker?

Discussion in 'Options' started by Daal, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    The whole idea behind the OP question was that you trade the SAME amount of money in both positions. Sure if you use different numbers you end up with a different conclusion. But if you invest the same amount in both position the % loss/gain tells you the full picture and the calls will make more money if right and lose more money if wrong.

    Simple Math 101...

    True, the timevalue adds a little and changes slightly the picture, but DITM calls have little time value anyway...
     
    #31     Sep 16, 2016
  2. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Thanks for the appreciation. Just trying to help with your basic question, so even the lamebrained can understand it. :)

    Did you get it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    #32     Sep 16, 2016
  3. Daal

    Daal

    What about the possibility of exercising the calls (early) and selling the stock, in case you change your mind?
     
    #33     Sep 16, 2016
  4. When DTE remaining not too far away, a DITM could still possibly become an OTM on expiration day after encountering anything similar to black swan events, potentially total wipe-out!

     
    #34     Sep 17, 2016
  5. I'll start by saying that options trading is not my specialty unlike the case for some of the other posters (SLE seems to be very knowledgable).

    My thoughts are that you are gaining from potential diversification with available cash and having the desirable convexity with an OTM option (assuming positive skew is good); however, the cost of paying risk premium and larger spreads (another assumption) might not make it worth it. I'm also assuming that that both positions are at parity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
    #35     Sep 17, 2016
  6. i960

    i960

    If you're instead long the underlying you're screwed anyway. The whole point of the DITM option is to get extrinsic value out of the picture but maximize margin by hopefully paying less up front in premium for the option than margin for the underlying.

    30 for AAPL 85 Dec'16s (~0.97 delta) while it's at 115 outright and you're paying 3000$ vs 11500$ for effectively controlling the same amount of shares. Assuming you just put up 50% of margin at 5750, you're looking at 3000$ vs 5750$, or 2x vs 3.8x leverage basically (plus no borrowing costs with the option although this is probably offset a bit by the slightly less than 1 delta).

    Let's say you're long the stock at 115 and it drops 30 points, you're out 3000$.
    Let's say you're long the option at 115 and it drops 30 points, you're out 3000$ (and it's actually less as it approaches ATM).
     
    #36     Sep 17, 2016
  7. imo, not exactly the same.

    Perhaps a stocks holder would keep and hold the position further for a long period of range-bound or until recovery, whereas an options holder would have to quit the now OTM position with a realised loss due to expiration.

    Just 2 cents!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
    #37     Sep 17, 2016
  8. i960

    i960

    So what. I'm out 3000$, and if I still "believe in it" like the long stock holder I simply put another one on.

    For sake of argument let's say it even dumped 50 points in some kind of odd flash crash, who's better off now? I lost 3000$, you lost 5000$ (doesn't matter if you want to call it realized vs unrealized, that's 5000$ of capital you no longer have).
     
    #38     Sep 17, 2016
  9. One worse scenario is after a black swan alike crash the ATM options to buy would be extremely expensive due to High IV, disregarding spread! Usually a/the poorest timing for initiating/going long gamma! imo

    Options risk profile is not as linear as stocks. Saying they, ATM included, are the same could be a bit over simplistic, basically. Another 2 cents!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
    #39     Sep 17, 2016
  10. i960

    i960

    Alright, not trying to be argumentative here, but realize in that situation the buyer would simply buy more DITM calls. ATM isn't even in play here nor is gamma as we're already well past the inflection point for gamma while DITM.
     
    #40     Sep 17, 2016