Is leveraging an account with deep ITM calls superior to using cash from your broker?

Discussion in 'Options' started by Daal, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Trading is ALL about expecting. You are long of something because you are EXPECTING it to increase in value...When you trade, you like it or not, you make a bet. That is life. Also known as facts.

    ITM calls lose WAY more then outright stocks, that is just simple math. If the stock drops 20%, you lose 30% with your 50% margined position, but you could lose 50 or 80% with your DITM calls.

    Do the math my friend, this is really basic Option 101 we are talking about
     
    #21     Sep 16, 2016
  2. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    Then why is ITM in the title of this thread?
     
    #22     Sep 16, 2016
  3. Daal

    Daal

    I was antecipating an idiot like you talking about a different option strategy and changing the subject about the strategy I referenced in the OP. The strategy is about deep ITM calls (not slightly ITM calls). I said way OTM calls are not relevant because its very different from being margined long
     
    #23     Sep 16, 2016
  4. sle

    sle

    Maybe I am being stupid here, but assuming the calls being delta-1, for the same amount of dollar exposure you will have the same P&L as a margin or cash position. Your only P&L discrepancies will be from funding/rebates/TC.
     
    #24     Sep 16, 2016
    i960 likes this.
  5. Would it be possible that trading with different time-frames as well as expected outcomes (strike, IV, DTE, et.) could provide different answers? I am just wondering!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
    #25     Sep 16, 2016
  6. If you use ITM options to match same amount of buying stocks then both positions lose the same $$. In other words if you buy 1 DITM LEAP and compare it to owning 100 shares of stock and the stock drops $3, both positions lose about $300. You can say one lost this percentage and one lost that but it is the same money. In fact a DITM call would retain time value premium so it would not lose $3.00 if the stock dropped $3.00, it could drop by less so that would make your statement wrong to say ITM calls lose way more than outright stocks. a % is not real money, money is real money. So your statement is not correct, you are only using the % but not looking at actual money lost.

    Take IBM trading at $154. 100 shares will cost you $7,700 on margin

    Jan18 $100 Call @ $55.00 will cost you $5,500 outright (effective price has $1 in time value premium).

    If stock drops $3 the stock position loses $300(3.9% loss)

    LEAP will lose slightly less than $3.00 due to delta=.9 but let's assume it is $3 and $300 unrealized loss (5.45% loss).

    Now you can claim that the LEAP will lose a lot more because it drops 5.45% versus 3.9% for the stock but that is just how you can mislead people. Both lose about $300 which is the same $ value.

    Just basic Option 101...

    Oh and the remark about greater loss... imagine at expiration IBM is at $100.

    Stock loss = 54 points or $5,400
    Option loss = $5,500

    Loss is separated by time value premium but the amount is NOT SIGNIFICANTLY different to leads to a conclusion that you will lose so much more money.
     
    #26     Sep 16, 2016
    Muffhands and i960 like this.
  7. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    I think the question is can you buy more delta via delta-1 calls vs stock on margin. My experience is that it's not that diferent as you can't pay for premium on margin. So if you pay 50percent notional for an itm option then you can buy the same amount of delta with stock in a reg-t account using 100percent margin.
     
    #27     Sep 16, 2016
  8. Main benefit for buying DITM calls is if it means less capital committed to the trade so you can spread your capital around in other trades like in my IBM example you save $2k which you can invest elsewhere, or if you pick 10 stocks you can commit slightly less capital to 10 DITM LEAP calls versus the stock on margin and diversify your cash better, assuming no dividends are being sought.
     
    #28     Sep 16, 2016
  9. sle

    sle

    Right. You probably get better cost of funding and short rebates as a part of DITM option.
     
    #29     Sep 16, 2016
  10. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Yeah. But you give up liquidity, which if you aren't small will be more costly in my opinion.
     
    #30     Sep 16, 2016