Is it time to throw in the towel?

ironchef · Feb 9, 2019

wrbtrader said:
It seems like TheDailyTrader has mislabel the person as "his mentor" even though he's always on Skype with him. No different than someone in this thread that gives specific advice when he talks about his specific trades (entry, exit, size, TLSA)...that too is not mentoring.

It will be like someone hanging out here at ET forum giving him advice in this thread about the specific trades, about what he should have done or what they would have done...analysis being shared and he then calls it being mentored.

For example, vanzandt giving advice @ https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/is-it-time-to-throw-in-the-towel.329591/page-14#post-4804158

The above is not mentoring but I've seen newbies here at ET call something like that as being mentored especially when someone consistently responds with the advice/analysis of any kind in someone's trade journal here at ET.

Regardless, a trader can not replicate (mimic/copy/piggyback) someone's trades on Skype, twitter, stocktwits, facebook, trade room or forum trade journal here at ET because they will not get the same fills and/or will not get a fill even if it was one on one (just the two of them in a private Skype conversation). In contrast, if his Skype buddy were to notify him of his trades long before the fact...

e.g. At 1000am est he saids...I will buy 300 shares of XYZ if/when reaches 78.52 and then around 1017am est the price hits 78.52

Those type of before the fact signal calls can be mimic/copy/piggyback. In contrast, trades that are posted in realtime as they occur are not "before the fact" signal calls will produce poor trade results or different trade results if someone tries to mimic/copy/piggyback realtime even if there was live screen sharing setup...the latter is problematic too due to the cognite decision making process that occurs when a person views real time info and then needs to make a decision to trade/not trade what they just viewed in real time...

All of which is further compounded because you're recommending such to a newbie trader.

Yet, as you noted that if he really does not have access to everything being used by his online trading buddy...he's blindly following his trading pal.

Also, my definition of everything is to be using the same trade setup, same trader chart configurations on the monitors, same broker/charting vendor, same trade execution platform, same news resources and everything else the same along with trading in a similar like at home trading environment...he may have a small chance to replicate the success of his trading buddy that he refers to as his mentor in error.

There's just too much information lacking about someone that he refers to as his mentor when the things he mentions about the person does not add up to as a mentor such as when he said the mentor is...

done trading most days by 11 and will stop back in at 2 to possibly take another trade and review his day. The last 2 days he only had to trade for 10 minutes.

How the heck does he knows what that trader is doing between 11am - 2pm ???

His trading buddy could actually be sitting there at his desk and eating a sandwich while watching streaming charts, CNBC and then watching porn videos on his 2nd monitor or doing yoga.

Seriously, I've had many trading days where I was only trading 10 - 15 minutes but spent the rest of the day watching/studying the charts like watching paint drying on the wall or getting a BJ from the spouse while someone thinks I'm sitting at the desk from 9 to 5.

Anyways, he has 60k and can easily afford a plane ticket to go spend time with his mentor...watching him trade in person for a week or so considering he's labeling the person as his mentor...he can even write off the cost of travel/hotel to his mentor as a tax deduction even though the mentor isn't charging him a penny to be mentored

Gotcha, as you noted, it just seems like he's just comparing himself to the other person and using it as a barometer. Yet, in my opinion, the so called mentor is most likely not aware of someone out there calling him a mentor.

I've seen such often here at ET when someone gets advice/reviews/analysis on trades here in their trade journal...later they go elsewhere and refers to that "advice/reviews/analysis" as mentoring from their mentor.

wrbtrader
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Your definition of mentoring may be too narrow.

vanzandt · Feb 9, 2019

ironchef said:
Your definition of mentoring may be too narrow.
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George: I still don't understand this. Abby has a mentor?

Jerry: Yes. And the mentor advises the protégé.

George: Is there any money involved?

Jerry: No.

George: So what's in it for the mentor?

Jerry: Respect, admiration, prestige.

George: Pssh. Would the protégé pick up stuff for the mentor?

Jerry: I suppose if it was on the protégé way to the mentor, they might.

George: Laundry? Dry cleaning?

Jerry: It's not a valet, it's a protégé!

wrbtrader · Feb 9, 2019

ironchef said:
Your definition of mentoring may be too narrow.
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I know

wrbtrader

Pkay · Feb 10, 2019

ajensen said:
That is inspiring but untrue. There are more boys who want to be professional football players than there are spots in the NFL. There are more boys who want to marry supermodels than there are women who are supermodel gorgeous. More brilliant people want to become tenured professors at research universities than there are slots available. In life people often need to abandon their dreams and pursue more realistic goals.
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Hard but true. This is the harsh reality of life.

Pkay · Feb 10, 2019

destriero said:
Dude, c'mon. He means the notional value transacted in buys and sells. He's sitting on $25-$30K.
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Haha, yes I think we realised it was the full unleveraged value of his aggregated trades. I mean, with $33m he'd be sitting on a nice beach somewhere sipping cocktails and not hitting a forum for advice...

bitstream_ryder · Feb 10, 2019

bone said:
You will NEVER take an entire trading range out of a trade. Don't count on buying bottoms or selling tops, either. Here's how the traders who do this for a living operate: 1. If they're wrong, they get out. They don't give away a month in a day. 2. You take your little piece out of the market and move on to the next opportunity.

You had better start keeping a daily journal and be brutally honest and self reflective about it. It's time you started booking profits for yourself and not your broker. To make it in this business you have to grow account equity. To grow account equity you have to stop repeating mistakes. You also must only take superior risk vs reward trade setups. Which means taking fewer trades. Cherry pick.

You build account equity by stringing together five good days averaging $100 per day net. Up your size then average $200 per day for five days net. And on and on. And in six months you're making a living.
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Whoa, I see at least 9 solid rules here for trading. So much goodness in 3 short paragraphs but new entrants to trading will find it hard to apply in a practical manner.

Pkay · Feb 10, 2019

MrMuppet said:
@TheDailyTrader

Ok look, I don't want to be mean and I also don't want to kick other guys balls here, but here are the facts:

1. You are talking about your "mentor": Do you actually know that this guy is making money? Have you seen his results? If so, does his methodology make sense to YOU?

Chances are that he's some guy who "teaches" BS that he collected from the interweb and bombards you with truisms. Warrior Trading, Bulls of Wallstreet, Sykes??

IF he makes money, does his trading appeal to you? If a brain surgeon told you "hey, this is hard, but doable and everything you have to do is like do a little cut here, then take the saw, make another cut there"...you get the picture. Would you really do it even though you know that you faint when you see blood?

2. Did you do your homework? Did you write a journal and did you record all your trades, thoughts, findings, results and did you review them on a regular basis? If not, get yourself tradervue.com and record every trade there. At least you will have some stats if you're too lazy to hand write. Find common themes in your losers and winners.

There is no other way to improve than this.

3. You are trading way too large. I find it crazy that you even ask if you should trade only 100 shares. You Sir should not even trade 50 shares. Plowing through 7k tuition fee...that would have been way too expensive for me. You have no idea, what you're doing, so trade the smalles amount possible.

4. You have zero edge. ZERO. All you do is brabble some TA terms but you have no idea why a setup works and how.

5. There is no reason for you to trade at the current stage. You are not profitable and you won't be in the near future. To see at least some light, you will most likely need three years of daily deliberate practise. If you can make it this far, you'll see serious cash after 5 years.
So to think that you'll turn around in a couple of months is a pipedream.

You will look for a part time job or a night shift to pay the bills. You will put your funds into a savings account besides what you need to trade the absolute minimum. Even 10 shares will do.

You will journal every single fking day. You'll write down, what the S&P did, what gold did, the 10 biggest stocks, treasuries, VIX, oil and copper. After that you'll do an analysis of the daily chart of your market that you will trade, you'll write down the news of the week for that stock.

Only then comes your trade idea...written down, of course.
You'll be finished 15 minutes before market open. You trade ONLY WHAT YOU HAVE PLANNED OUT IN ADVANCE!! and once you've finished, you copy/paste your executions into your journal and write down what you did well, what did not went well, any surprises that came across.

...and then you shut down your computer. You will not browse for setups during the day, you will not trade anything that you have not prepared in advance.

Do this every day for 6 months and you will see significant improvement. Sounds like a lot of work? It is. I did this for every single trading day during the last 10 years and it is the only reason I'm still alive.
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Thanks, this is awesome advice. I agree on all points even though I'm a newbie. The only thing I'll do differently is actually trade live but with small stakes ( eg micro forex or futures, 10 share lots etc). Having skin in the game gives you that live trading experience and you cannot get that via demo trading.

I'm curious to know why you advocate journaling copper, oil, VIX, SPY, major stocks if they are markets you have no intention of trading?

Many.

Pkay · Feb 10, 2019

leflos said:
Ah, I love the sarcasm, very good.

For starters, i'm 21 and in uni so no, i'm not the big deal.... sorry

I, however, love everything that revolve around risk. I have a relatively small BR, I hedge myself with options and I analyze anything I can find. That's me. I also don't urge myself to trade so I may not take trades for days if I don't feel like it.

My ''tip'' isn't really from a trader perspective, it's more of a general idea. (you may not agree but that's my opinion nonetheless)

** I also have my little system which consist of 2 MA + ATR for entries,exits. I also have a preset screener to look for specific type of companies.
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Thanks. Nice too see that you have a plan. That's a really good start. I'm still struggling to put a plan together.

Any chance you could expand a bit on your 2 MA + ATR strategy?

ElCubano · Feb 10, 2019

leflos said:
1. Living with mommys at 25 trying to become a good trader... WTF

End of story
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Nothing wrong with that. Live with her as long as you can Daily. You should see this as a blessing that you have this option. Trust me everything else is just noise.

ElCubano · Feb 10, 2019

ajensen said:
That is inspiring but untrue. There are more boys who want to be professional football players than there are spots in the NFL. There are more boys who want to marry supermodels than there are women who are supermodel gorgeous. More brilliant people want to become tenured professors at research universities than there are slots available. In life people often need to abandon their dreams and pursue more realistic goals.
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Bingo. This does not equate to giving up either. It’s like being stopped out of trade and taking opportunity costs into account. Good luck. You are young and have plenty of time ahead of you.