Is it possible that index futures can go negative like oil futures?

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by helpme_please, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. bone

    bone

    Most index futures like ES are cash settled. Even Eurodollars are cash settled.

    The Crude Oil contract is physically settled - and with a very specific, rather restrictive and prescribed procedure at that. You either had to deliver FOB from rack space at Cushing, Oklahoma (full up), or transfer title from existing storage at the sellers discretion.

    Completely different situation than a cash settled stock index.

     
    #31     Apr 24, 2020
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  2. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    Hypothetically, wouldn't that also imply most of the components (stocks) in the Index have also dropped into negative territory ???

    Then there's the issue raised by Bone about cash settle versus physically settled.

    Regardless, the price action distance to travel that low even to get near Zero would be twilight zone stuff. People will be jumping out the windows.

    wrbtrader
     
    #32     Apr 24, 2020
    virtusa and bone like this.
  3. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    Dispersion trading would prevent this unless you had a like event in equities.
     
    #33     Apr 24, 2020
  4. old coot

    old coot

    All that needs to happen is a law passed that says shareholders are liable for a company's debt.

    Is that really out of the realm of possibility?
     
    #34     Apr 25, 2020
  5. virtusa

    virtusa

    First of all the OP spoke about INDEXFUTURES, so what you suggest should happen for hundreds of multinationals at the same time. Is that really out of the realm of possibility?

    They can pass a law that says that all shareholders will be killed if they don't sell their shares at a negative price. Is that really out of the realm of possibility? ROFLMAO.

    Depends if you are a dreamer or a realist:
    • If a dreamer: anything can happen
    • If a realist: is not going to happen
    Can you show us a list of the companies that would go under zero if "your" law would pass?
     
    #35     Apr 25, 2020
  6. old coot

    old coot

    Read history. As far as anything could happen, think back just a few years, then look at today's headlines. And don't inject bleach while doing so. Hell, just look up the concept of oil going negative, before it actually happened. If I owned United Airlines and had to be responsible for its debt, I'd pay somebody to take it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    #36     Apr 25, 2020
  7. bone

    bone

    Has any of you ever seen an equity share registered with the SEC and listed on a public exchange trade negative?

    The only reason that the WTI future went negative for a brief time was because of a very restrictive and prescribed physical delivery procedure in the terms of the contract and for the lack of physical storage. There is no such thing in an equity share. And it’s entirely conceivable that the same structural dynamic could happen for the June WTI contract unless demand picks up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
    #37     Apr 25, 2020
    Overnight and virtusa like this.
  8. virtusa

    virtusa

    We don't speak about stocks we speak about indexfutures. And for that question the answer is NO.Try to read what the question was.

    "First of all the OP spoke about INDEXFUTURES, so what you suggest should happen for hundreds of multinationals at the same time."
     
    #38     Apr 25, 2020
  9. old coot

    old coot

    Ah, I see the problem here. I tend to read words as what the words actually mean.

    possible.PNG
     
    #39     Apr 25, 2020
  10. Overnight

    Overnight

    Well, you'd be responsible for SOMEONE'S retirement I guess.



    (Keep UAL, they are not done yet. Neither is Boeing.)
     
    #40     Apr 25, 2020