Q https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism Pantheism is the belief that the Universe (or Nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity,[1] or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent God.[2] Pantheists thus do not believe in a distinct personal or anthropomorphic god.[3] Some Asian religions are considered to be pantheistically inclined. ... Definitions Pantheism is derived from the Greek πᾶν pan (meaning "all") and θεός theos (meaning "God"). There are a variety of definitions of pantheism. Some consider it a theological and philosophical position concerning God.[4].8 As a religious position, some describe pantheism as the polar opposite of atheism.[5] From this standpoint, pantheism is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing, immanent God.[2] All forms of reality may then be considered either modes of that Being, or identical with it.[7] Some hold that pantheism is a non-religious philosophical position. To them, pantheism is the view that the Universe (in the sense of the totality of all existence) and God are identical (implying a denial of the personality and transcendence of God).[8] UQ
Q https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoics Physics and cosmology According to the Stoics, the universe is a material, reasoning substance, known as God or Nature, which the Stoics divided into two classes, the active and the passive. The passive substance is matter, which "lies sluggish, a substance ready for any use, but sure to remain unemployed if no one sets it in motion."[17] The active substance, which can be called Fate, or Universal Reason (Logos), is an intelligent aether or primordial fire, which acts on the passive matter: "The universe itself is god and the universal outpouring of its soul; it is this same world's guiding principle, operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things and the totality that embraces all existence; then the foreordained might and necessity of the future; then fire and the principle of aether; then those elements whose natural state is one of flux and transition, such as water, earth, and air; then the sun, the moon, the stars; and the universal existence in which all things are contained. —Chrysippus, in Cicero, De Natura Deorum, i.39" Everything is subject to the laws of Fate, for the Universe acts according to its own nature, and the nature of the passive matter it governs. The souls of people and animals are emanations from this primordial fire, and are, likewise, subject to Fate: "Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul; and observe how all things have reference to one perception, the perception of this one living being; and how all things act with one movement; and how all things are the cooperating causes of all things that exist; observe too the continuous spinning of the thread and the structure of the web. —Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, iv. 40" Individual souls are perishable by nature, and can be "transmuted and diffused, assuming a fiery nature by being received into the Seminal Reason (logos spermatikos) of the Universe."[18] Since right Reason is the foundation of both humanity and the universe, it follows that the goal of life is to live according to Reason, that is, to live a life according to Nature. ... Christianity The major difference between the two philosophies (social and spiritual) is Stoicism's pantheism, in which God is never fully transcendent but always immanent. God as the world-creating entity is personalized in Christian thought, but Stoicism equates God with the totality of the universe, which was deeply contrary to Christianity. The only incarnation in Stoicism is that each person has part of the logos within. Stoicism, unlike Christianity, does not posit a beginning or end to the universe.[33] Stoicism was later regarded by the Fathers of the Church as a "pagan philosophy";[3][4] nonetheless, some of the central philosophical concepts of Stoicism were employed by the early Christian writers. Examples include the terms "logos", "virtue", "Spirit", and "conscience".[33] But the parallels go well beyond the sharing and borrowing of terminology. Both Stoicism and Christianity assert an inner freedom in the face of the external world, a belief in human kinship with Nature or God, a sense of the innate depravity—or "persistent evil"—of humankind,[33] and the futility and temporarity of worldly possessions and attachments. Both encourage Ascesis with respect to the passions and inferior emotions such as lust, envy and anger, so that the higher possibilities of one's humanity can be awakened and developed. Stoic writings such as the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius have been highly regarded by many Christians throughout the centuries. The Stoic ideal of dispassion is accepted to this day as the perfect moral state by the Eastern Orthodox Church. Saint Ambrose of Milan was known for applying Stoic philosophy to his theology.[citation needed] Influences In his letters, St. Paul reflected heavily from his knowledge of Stoic philosophy, using Stoic terms and metaphors to assist his new Gentile converts in their understanding of the revealed word of God.[34] Stoic influence can also be seen in the works of St. Ambrose, Marcus Minucius Felix, and Tertullian.[35] UQ
Cared enough to act as a primordial mover? I make no such claim. All that I believe is that "GOD" acted to create the (Uni/Multi)verse. Does it care? I have no idea. I have no idea that some "GOD" created the universe either. It is just a private belief based on decades of rational inquiry. I suppose the act of choosing to do something as opposed to not doing it presuposes some prior condition, but I don't know what it is. Label? I hate labels, especially those that are applied to me. So self imposing one on myself is distasteful to say the least. I believe in a similar GOD that Einstein did and Spinoza did before him. Tomorrow, as I learn and discover new things, I may believe differently. In any sutiations where I don't know and can't possibly know, I am ok with being ignorant, and follow where current thinking by people that do it for a living and do nothing but think about it all day long in a scientific way. When they write about what they think, it is very clear to me if they are scientists or not. I believe that real knowledge and insight and progress comes at the rational resolution of the intersection of contradictions. Contradiction is perhaps too strong a word, but exageration makes my point. If I had to label myself, I would say I am a rational scientific mystic. Try to wrap your head around that!
Right, of course. It is very difficult for most human minds to see beauty and not attribute it to some design cause. I am fully aware of this failure in reasoning, and at a moments notice can scrap this belief. But all that I am and all that I know, point me at a designer as primal cause. But you wouldn't catch me dead trying to create a religion around it, or telling people how they should live their lives based on it. I belive that is the realm of law and meta-morality.
I don't think people should be told how to live their lives either. I thinks we all should be able to murder, rape, steal and break all the 10 commandments and 7 sins. It would be a wonderful world if everyone would do this. We can only pray for it to happen. No laws, no rules, no regulations. Complete freedom. You know, like before religion came along.
You mean you rely only on religion to stop yourself acting that way?:eek: That is so old! Morality is independent from religion. Religion has always been dependent on outside human morality. It must be. Otherwise no one would be able to tell if in fact religions or religious views, were moral or not. cool posts, Captain Obvious and nitro..... and hey, many thanks jimmiebarton..
well, let's talk about morality. Where does it come from? Watch National Geographic like I do and you see monkeys have their own morality which I assume we all have as some kind of self preservation when we live in a society or herd or flock or whatever monkeys live in. The most famous example of the church just codifying in writing what the laws of self preservation must be in a society was the Ten Commandments.
Two thousand years ago man was a bunch of murdering, stealing, raping pile of garbage. Religion had to come and save mankind. And quit the butt kissing. Makes you look funny.