Is covered call writing on dividend stocks the holy grail for the semi risk averse investor?

Discussion in 'Options' started by Daal, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Here's the problem. One, when the market tanks, vol is not going to uptick much on these stocks on the way down as much as you think. And two, and this is the worst part, say MO sells off 10 pts. You have to write a call almost at the money. As soon as MO bottoms you will be doing EXACTLY what you are trying to avoid doing which is sell at the bottom. MO will get called away from you as soon as the stock upticks off the lows. So you will ride the stock all the way down and then sell it on the lows. The only way to avoid that would be to create a rule that says if the market sells off, you don't write any calls on the stock until it gets back to the highs. But then that defeats the whole "comfort" factor.

    Look, covered calls has been pitched to mom and pop types at investing seminars for decades starting with Wade Cook who went to prison.

    I'll offer a better suggestion and one that does get pitched on CNBC a lot and while I still don't like it, it's better then your version. Look for very volatile growth stocks but ones you actually like and want to own. Every earnings period sell calls against your long shares when vol spikes going into earnings. If the stock tanks, you capture the premium (comfort) and you still own shares. If the stock pops, it almost always fades. You will be able to get back in for close to where you got out factoring in the call premium. That makes more sense. Because in this version of the "comfort trade", you are selling at the highs vs the lows (having stock called away at the bottom) and you are improving your cost basis every time the stock tanks. MUCH better then selling .30 at the money calls on dividend stocks and then being forced to sell on the lows once the stock bottoms.
     
    #41     Oct 24, 2016
    paladinhgwt and vanzandt like this.
  2. If I knew that, I'd just buy them, rather than futzing with options.
     
    #42     Oct 24, 2016
  3. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    But you "did" buy them. That's my point, you OWN the stocks. You sell the earnings juice because that is the "premium" the market is offering you to hold the risk going into an event. There is a real economic benefit and purpose being served. No such benefit exists for the call seller of a dividend stock as no one needs to insure against a utility or tobacco stock grinding higher.
     
    #43     Oct 24, 2016
  4. Whether the 'juice' in those situations is too much, too little, or just right is an empirical question that would have to be studied carefully.
     
    #44     Oct 24, 2016
  5. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Of course. That is constant among ALL strategies. I was simply implying that it was better then blindly selling calls every month in low vol dividend paying stocks as a way to be "comforted" from selling the lows.
     
    #45     Oct 24, 2016
  6. I agree selling calls on divvy stocks is unlikely a-priori to be a good strategy. But I've been wrong before, and I haven't done the relevant research.
     
    #46     Oct 24, 2016
  7. bullish on lung cancer
     
    #47     Oct 24, 2016
  8. tonynyc

    tonynyc

    I'm using this strategy with AMAT, pays a small quarterly dividend, and I create my own dividend by selling weeklies.

    [​IMG]
     
    #48     Oct 29, 2016
    viruscore1 likes this.
  9. PaulT

    PaulT

    Excellent, Tony.
    You have converted the 1.33% dividend yield into potentially 18.5% yield. And if the underlying gets called away, you can simply find another stock and continue the process. Or, if your account size permits, run 5 or 10 or more of these every week, so if one is called away, no big deal. The "home run hitters" on here don't appreciate the slow and sure strategy of covered call writing, and focus too much (IMO) on the lost opportunity costs of missing a large uptick in the underlying.
    Do you have a particular tactic in deciding which Call to choose? When I examine this using ThinkBack on TOS it looks like you are choosing the 25-30 Delta Call - is that the case, or do you have some other criteria?
     
    #49     Oct 29, 2016
  10. I use similar strategy. Once called away, wait for retracement and sell otm put for assignment. Sometimes the put strike is below the call option assigned price.
     
    #50     Feb 24, 2018