Well a liberal one world view that would dilute the validity of the Bible and undermine the deity of Christ would sell you a bunch of crap claiming you dont need to be saved from anything. After all you are a gGod. problem is you as a God cant solve the worlds problems. LOL. BARF BAGS!!!
You SURE about that? I find the premise baffling, due to the myriad interpretations possible. And which bible?
We need a metric to have a concept of "superior". What is the standard? Should we use God as an absolute standard? However, how can one believe something that he considers bad as God? Isn't one of the characteristics of God good? What is the definition of God? That was one of the good reasons imo why one doesn't believe in the God described in the Bible.
Even if it's apparent that God isn't moral by your standards is your stance rational? Why would a solid logician like yourself condemn himself to an eternity of misery for the sake of one brief moment of heroic defiance ( a moment you may deal with forever but that would soon be forgotten by heavenly management)? Assuming you had met God and had one last chance at reconciliation wouldn't you be inclined to weigh the certainty of the perpetual agony of damnation against the uncertainty of the ultimate wisdom of your own moral value complex developed in a state of mortal ignorance? Also, wouldn't you weigh the wonder and beauty of being against it's sadness and perhaps see some good in this willful God? Surely you might be inclined to ask for a little time to think the matter over having discovered that God in fact is, however tyrannical God may be. And first point last: "Who would want him as a god?" . We can't simply choose our beliefs. A belief can come, go, or change through reasoning, intuition, experience, revelation, programming or some other intervening process but we can't simply choose to believe something.
You have raised many points here that will require some time to answer. It's 1:00 AM here and I'm off to bed, but I'll get back to you. Good luck, Hans
Hans: >Even if it's apparent that God isn't moral by your >standards is your stance rational? If one has decent morals -- quite. >Why would a solid logician like yourself condemn >himself to an eternity of misery for the sake of one >brief moment of heroic defiance A: It's not for the sake if defiance -- it's for the sake of what's right for oneself. B: An eternity bowing to a god like that would bring far more misery. >Assuming you had met God and had one last >chance at reconciliation wouldn't you be inclined >to weigh the certainty of the perpetual agony of >damnation against the uncertainty of the ultimate >wisdom of your own moral value complex developed >in a state of mortal ignorance? You can bow to a god you don't respect if you wish. It's just not for me. >Also, wouldn't you weigh the wonder and >beauty of being against it's sadness and >perhaps see some good in this willful God? There's some good in every mass murderer -- doesn't mean you bow to them. >Surely you might be inclined to ask for a little time >to think the matter over having discovered that >God in fact is, however tyrannical God may be. Surely not. >And first point last: "Who would want him >as a god?" . We can't simply choose our beliefs. Perhaps *you* can't, but for many of us you couldn't be more wrong. >A belief can come, go, or change through >reasoning, intuition, experience, revelation, >programming or some other intervening >process but we can't simply choose to >believe something. Hogwash -- women choose to believe that their philandering husband will change his ways. Men choose to believe that the drunk women in the bar is actually hot for him. People *choose to believe* all sorts of things because the *want* it to be true. It happens everyday for good and bad. JB
Hansel I got your reply and np, I will check back later if you have a chance to respond. However, I just had to comment on this bit above. I vehemently disagree that we can't choose to believe something. I see people who choose to believe things all the time. In fact I see that tendency as being one of the primary ways in which people rationalize their failures. The only question I used to have is 'Do they really, truly believe in the excuses they make? Isn't there a small part of them, deep inside, that knows that all the excuses are bullshit? Was there a part of Hitler that knew all his racist rhetoric was bullshit?' I used to think there was. I now believe that that's not necessarily true.
The other side of this is the question. Can you force yourself to believe something that all available evidence tells you just is not true? Even if you could wouldnt an all knowing God know you were faking it and fry you anyhow?