Is Annual 15% Riskless Return Possible?

Discussion in 'Financial Futures' started by Bobby T, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. carrer

    carrer

    First, the swap might diminish your profit.
    Second, have you considered commissions? The more leverage you use, the more commissions you pay.

    Why not you park your money in third world countries banks.
    eg. Kazakh c.bank = 12 percent.
     
    #11     Sep 23, 2015
  2. Turveyd

    Turveyd

    They'd just cancel each other out, I guess Spot pay you a + swap fee, the Futures account doesn't charge you a negative 1 so there is your profit I guess.

    Commisions on both about 6days of swap payments I guess ??
     
    #12     Sep 23, 2015
  3. The "riskless return" is the coupon rate in T-Bills (presuming the U.S. Government is not going to default before your bills mature.) ANY higher return than that involves at least some degree of risk.
     
    #13     Sep 23, 2015
  4. Daal

    Daal

    OP,
    how are you going to lever up on FX spot EUR without paying a lot of interest to borrow the other currency?
     
    #14     Sep 23, 2015
    Sig likes this.
  5. destriero

    destriero

    Pure arbs are always about rates. Therefore the risk of any rates-arbitrage (conversions, boxes, rolls, cash) involves (rho in options) risk to rates/rate-vol over the duration of the contract (mostly opportunity cost and MTM depending on the structure of the arb). There is no convexity to leverage, but yes, you trade it as large as capacity, capital and rate-risk will allow.

    This is one of the most basic arbs in existence. To assume that is is not ran every 20ms by every MMer trading in these products in silly.
     
    #15     Sep 23, 2015
  6. bone

    bone

    To OP: No.
     
    #16     Sep 23, 2015
  7. In theory, annually compounded 15% growth, for 40 years (from 30 to 70), shall give you
    1.15^40 = 267.8635 =260 times. For example, if one start with seed of 10K at the age of 30, he should have 2.6M at the age of 70.

    If you live ten more years to 80, then 1.15^50 = 1083.657 = 10.8M. Therefore there should be some suckers anywhere who lose more than 10M.

    Please note that making 1000 times is almost same as finding 999 suckers in the markets. If you are as smart as one in plain 1000 persons, it might be possible.

    ARE YOU?

    PS) With tax and commission, probably more than 1000 persons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
    #17     Sep 26, 2015
    lawrence-lugar likes this.
  8. Furthermore, if Buffet's claim for compounded 20% for 45 years is true, then 1.2^45 = 3657.262 =4000 times might be the best attainable.
     
    #18     Sep 26, 2015
  9. bone

    bone

    Spot on. Any point contrary is pure unadulterated BS.
     
    #19     Sep 26, 2015
  10. destriero

    destriero


    Wrong. I've traded, and seen people trade debit verticals (1x1s) at zero many times on a single ticket. This also belies any basic rates arbitrage like conversions, boxes, etc. I've done dozens of boxes at implied rates on European ops at up to 8x LIBOR. Stating it is "BS" abrogates ANY arbitrage, which is, BS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
    #20     Sep 26, 2015