Is America at war – or not?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Pop Sickle, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. Is America at war – or not?

    Pat Buchanan finds no historical precedent for giving KSM a civilian trial
    Posted: November 16, 2009
    6:50 pm Eastern

    By Patrick J. Buchanan

    Are we at war – or not?

    For if we are at war, why is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed headed for trial in federal court in the Southern District of New York? Why is he entitled to a presumption of innocence and all of the constitutional protections of a U.S. citizen?

    Is it possible we have done an injustice to this man by keeping him locked up all these years without trial? For that is what this trial implies – that he may not be guilty.

    And if we must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KSM was complicit in mass murder, by what right do we send Predators and Special Forces to kill his al-Qaida comrades wherever we find them? For none of them has been granted a fair trial.

    When the Justice Department sets up a task force to wage war on a crime organization like the Mafia or MS-13, no U.S. official has a right to shoot Mafia or gang members on sight. No one has a right to bomb their homes. No one has a right to regard the possible death of their wives and children in an attack as acceptable collateral damage.

    A jaw-dropping expose on the six-month undercover operation that revealed the true terror-supporting nature of CAIR: "Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That's Conspiring to Islamize America." It's also available in electronic form at reduced price through Scribd.

    Yet that is what we do to al-Qaida, to which KSM belongs.

    We conduct those strikes in good conscience because we believe we are at war. But if we are at war, what is KSM doing in a U.S. court?

    Minoru Genda, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor, a naval base on U.S. soil, when America was at peace, and killed nearly as many Americans as the Sept. 11 hijackers, was not brought here for trial. He was an enemy combatant under the Geneva Conventions and treated as such.

    When Maj. Andre, the British spy and collaborator of Benedict Arnold, was captured, he got a military tribunal, after which he was hanged. When Gen. Andrew Jackson captured two British subjects in Spanish Florida aiding renegade Indians, Jackson had both tried and hanged on the spot.

    Enemy soldiers who commit atrocities are not sent to the United States for trial. Under the Geneva Conventions, soldiers who commit atrocities are shot when caught.

    When and where did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed acquire his right to a trial by a jury of his peers in a U.S. court?

    When John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln, alleged collaborators like Mary Surratt were tried before a military tribunal and hanged at Fort McNair. When eight German saboteurs were caught in 1942 after being put ashore by U-boat, they were tried in secret before a military commission and executed, with the approval of the Supreme Court. What makes KSM special?

    Is the Obama administration aware of what it is risking by not turning KSM over to a military tribunal in Guantanamo?

    How does Justice handle a defense demand for a change of venue, far from lower Manhattan, where the jury pool was most deeply traumatized by Sept. 11? Would not KSM and his co-defendants, if a change of venue is denied, have a powerful argument for overturning any conviction on appeal?

    Were not KSM's Miranda rights impinged when he was not only not told he could have a lawyer on capture, but that his family would be killed and he would be waterboarded if he refused to talk?

    (Column continues below)

    And if all the evidence against the five defendants comes from other than their own testimony under duress, do not their lawyers have a right to know when, where, how and from whom Justice got the evidence to prosecute them? Does KSM have the right to confront all witnesses against him, even if they are al-Qaida turncoats or U.S. spies still transmitting information to U.S. intelligence?

    There have been reports that in the trials of those convicted in the first World Trade Center bombing, sources and methods were compromised, weakening our security for the second attack on Sept. 11.

    If the trial is held in lower Manhattan, how much security will be needed to protect against a car bomber who wants the world to see a mighty blow struck against the Great Satan? And if, as some suggest, the trial should be held on Governor's Island, would that not make the United States look like a nation under siege?

    What do we do if the case against KSM is thrown out because the government refuses to reveal sources or methods, or if he gets a hung jury, or is acquitted, or has his conviction overturned?

    In America, trials often become games, where the prosecution, though it has truth on its side, loses because it inadvertently breaks one of the rules.

    The Obamaites had best pray that does not happen, for they may be betting his presidency on the outcome of the game about to begin.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116268
     
  2. I'm trying to figure out the logic.

    Maybe the US is trying to do a head count on the nut jobs that will appear in nyc.

    The trial should be good for the nyc economy and a back door gift of additional terrorism funds and personel. Bloomberg didn't protest.
     
  3. TGregg

    TGregg

    Let's review the case for the prosecution:

    Miranda rights? Nope.
    Subpoenas? Noppers.
    Chain of evidence? Uh uh.
    Speedy Trial? Natta.
    Careful protection of all civil liberties and due process by uniformed police officers fully trained in a myriad of ways both big and small? LOL.
    Coercion? Oh yeah, plenty.
    Capture under imminent threat of death with maximum force by troops unused to and poorly trained in civil rights? You know it.

    Let's just give them the massive public stage in a US courtroom then set them free. It is, after all, exactly what we voted for. Most of us, anyway.

    :mad:
     
  4. "Maybe the US is trying to do a head count on the nut jobs..."

    A gathering of Mr. Peanuts in New York...

    Perfect!


    <img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2641972>

     
  5. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    We were, right up until the inauguration earlier this year.

    Now we're mostly about kiss ass apologies.
     
  6. Wallet

    Wallet

    I do not understand the mentality of such a move, going back to NYC? When McVeigh was tried for the OKC bombing the venue was moved to Denver to give him a fair Kangaroo court.

    This is a military matter as the suspects are foreign, and without the constitutionality support of our courts.

    The trial will end up a public debacle, (hopefully I am wrong), but nothing will ignite a public outcry of intense rage more than acquitting them.

    This could backfire big time for the current administration.
     
  7. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    Personally I think an acquittal is what King Hussein wants, to appease his Muslim buddies.
     
  8. Wallet

    Wallet

    All I can see is the defense lawyer yelling out " if the keffiyeh don't fit you must acquit"
     
  9. fhl

    fhl

    <img src="http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/toon_111609_FULL.jpg" />
     
  10. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament.

    America as the last man standing

    I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe .. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.

    First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem .

    The Europe you know is changing.

    You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

    All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.

    There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.

    Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.

    In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

    Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.

    In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.

    In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.

    Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

    A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.

    Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.
     
    #10     Nov 17, 2009