If someone expects to learn to make money from books, then my advice is to stop trading and use the money in something better. 98%* of all books on trading are junk. The most profitable subjects in the art of trading are: Education and brokerage. You can check sites like pristine.com and many others that show and teach the process of getting rich educating people with crap. Brokerage is also a very profitable business, confirmed with the study made, that shows that 90% of all busted accounts are ruined by commissions. So the industry works this way, Teaching and brokerage are linked. So going back to the beginning of the thread, if you want to learn something good you have to find someone good(trader) that is whiling to share its knowledge for a big sum of money, otherwise you'll end reading and dreaming with Market Wizards. *2% of the remaining books includes all the books by Mark Douglas, Reminiscences of a stock Operator...
When trading the ES with a small account as being discussed, is there a draw down on margin during the day as trades are being open/closed, or are all funds immediately available again once a trade is closed out? IOW, is it permissible to trade as many times as you like intraday assuming that the account stays above the minimum margin requirements? Thanks! st
Thanks for the quick reply! Also, what time must postions be closed to prevent being hit with overnight margin requirements? I've tried to research this, but there seems to be conflicting answers stating anywhere from 3:30 to 4:15 PM. Therefore, due to various answers depending on the source, could this depend on the broker or is it bound by SEC rules? Thanks again. st
I started with 10k. 5k is pushing it a bit though. One advantage with starting with f*ck all is that you don't have much to lose. A 21 year old guy starting with 5k has no fear and can shrug off blowing up, whereas a 25-40 year old risking 50-100k has fear, a wife nagging him, and kids and a mortgage to pay, and if he loses his stake, he's royally f*cked. Personally I say start trading as soon as you have enough to fund an account. Trade small, and expect to blow up a couple of times before you "get it". The smaller your account the better IMO, because chances are you will lose it, and the less you have at risk the less each blowup will knock you back. And if you are one of the rare few who aren't going to lose it all, then you don't need a big account anyway.
Very true! In the beginning you'll blow up any account, so it might as well be small. I blew up 3 times before i got the hang of it.
This thread and the Think It's Time For Me to Call It Quits thread should be permanently bonded together . . .
I started in 2000 with $8,000 in debt at a prop firm that took traders with no money. By the end of 2001 I made 90k. 02 to 03 130k. Half of 03 to 04 50k. From Aug of 03 until now I have taken some time off to start a business (to get another stable source of income) and flip houses in the realestate market. It can be done.
Midas, Were you in debt because of trading? What was your trading exp prior to 2000? Those are impressive gains. From most of the comments on this and other similar threads, one would conclude that this is the equivalent of being struck by lightning. I don't think that is true, that is why I ask. Thanks. Capt
wow what a diverse bunch of answers $5k or even $3k is definitely enough to start trading...what the hell are you going to use excess capital for if your starting out?? Discretionary trade: - Trade SMALL and keep your losses to the minimum...OF COURSE some of you may say, but all that means is don't put on a trade you would need to ride out significant adverse swings before you get into your profit zone, wait for trades you know right away if they're going your way or not, eg. trade close to S/R levels... - With a small account OF COURSE you need to tread very lightly...if you come out gunning for big gains in leveraged positions, yeah, expect to blow up before you know what your doing! System trading - You should know the expectancy of your system before you even put on a single trade AND the expected max loss with max loss trades in a row...so if on paper you could expect to loss it all before making any profit, well, back to the drawing board for a less volatile system These are really no-brainers, so why blow up?? UNLESS you 1) make the same mistakes repeatedly, 2) Trade with too much SIZE, 3) trade with leverage 4) begin to gamble if you put on a trade and get STOPPED OUT AT A LOSS (max calculated loss I would HOPE), analyze that trade and don't do it again. Of course, this assumes you know the REASON why you did the trade in the first place With $5000 expect to LEARN only, and expect your gains to be small, so make 2-3 trades a week to figure things out so you don't rack up the commish hope this helps