Investment VS Debt

Discussion in 'Economics' started by myminitrading, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. If you can borrow for less than what you would earn on a six month CD then you are ahead of the game.

    Current yield over 5%
    #11     Jul 18, 2006
  2. If your tax bracket is over 25%, paying down a typical 30-year mortgage makes no sense right now. Your cost of capital after taxes is less than 5% on the note. You'd pay less than 75% of a rate of 6.375% which clocks in at less than 5% net. But if you put those funds in CDs, you'd make your 5+% yield on the CD and then pay tax on the gain, so you'd only get to keep 75% of that 5+%. The break even is really something like the 20% tax bracket, but I don't have a calculator on me.
    #12     Jul 18, 2006
  3. Your education is no doubt an investment in your future. However choosing the right education is the trick.

    I think folks should be happy at what they do, they will live longer have fewer health problems.

    Rising health care and lack of health care along with zero savings and high debt levels for 80% of the population is an ugly picture.

    Our current leaders have set an awful example driving our nation into debt and spending like drunken sailors.
    #13     Jul 18, 2006
  4. dac8555


    wow. you are kidding right? i disagree 200%...and then some.

    Your house (the one you live in vs. an investment property) is an EXPENSE.

    you think a house has a guaranteed return? is almost a guaranteed loss if you keep it less that 30 years at the average rate of real estate appreciation (in line with inflation..lnot much more). this is due to interest on the loan, taxes, maintenance insurance etc, etc, etc.

    lets also talk about liquidity risk as well. if you have an unseen expense (a sick family member...fir instance) and you need quick access to can cash out of the market and have your money in 2 days. if all that is wrapped up in your are up a creek.

    as far as risk of loss...again you can limit your downside very easiy in the financial markets...simply set a stop loss. in real estate..well, you know where i am going...again up a creek.

    short selling? lets say you have a $500k house in the gets soft...value drops $100k (a very real possibility at this point in time)...and you have pretty tough situation. same situation in the have the ability to sell short and MAKE rather than lose on the way down.

    i understand your argument for the average person who doesnt understand either realestate or finincial markets very well. But for me...put me in the smallest house possible, with cheap used cars...and 80% of my wealth in the markets ANYDAY. As far as savings and retirement...i will do far, far better then the guy who just pays off his mortgage.
    #14     Jul 18, 2006

  5. Their thats it you got it "interest on the loan" thats why applying as much extra cash to the principal you can cut that down.

    on a 400,000 mortgage, by doubling you monthly;y payment you cut a 30 year mortgage down to 8 years and save over 200k in interest over the life of the original loan.

    Consider what you pay for margin loans from your broker, consider what you pay in commissions, consider what your pay for equipment, consider what you pay for software etc etc etc.
    consider you may even loose money from trading :eek:
    #15     Jul 18, 2006

  6. You mention liquidity, what if your position is loosing money when you need to liquidate for cash. I am just pointing out a scenario, it could also be a winning position.
    #16     Jul 18, 2006
  7. Your tax bracket has nothing to do with it as long as you're investing the money in CDs, short-term capital gains, or short-term dividends (and aren't subject to AMT). Someone in a low tax bracket pays less on the gains AND gets less benefit from the mortgage deduction. Someone in a high tax bracket pays more on the gains AND gets a greater benefit from the mortgage deduction. As long as the interest rate on the mortgage is less than the effective interest rate on the CD ( or trading gains), you get a net gain by borrowing on the house and investing the money. Thus the after-tax cost of a 6% mortgage exactly cancels the after-tax gain on a 6% CD regardless of tax bracket.
    #17     Jul 18, 2006
  8. GTS


    True unless you take the money that you would have used to paydown your mortgage and put it in tax-free investment like an IRA or 401k.

    Another alternative is to invest for the long-term; as long as you buy and hold until much later in life (retirement) you pay no taxes on your investments until you sell them. This would apply to stocks/mutual funds, not CD's as mentioned though.

    I agree with all the posters that have taken a position opposite the OP. Myminitrading your analysis and comments are not well thought out and seem to be more based on emotions and gut-feel rather than sound logical financial analysis.

    Of course you can find people who would squander their money if they didnt payoff their mortgage early but that shouldn't be the basis for your argument about which is the better choice.

    Stupid people do lots of stupid things. Don't be one of them.
    #18     Jul 18, 2006
  9. I think you're saying that the capital gains rate is lower so the gain on the CD might not apply? If so, thats a good point. But if you pay down the mortgage, you're paying with earned income, so I think its appropriate to look at the discounted interest rate.
    #19     Jul 18, 2006
  10. 401k please stop, Roth IRA now your talking. I know its not very appropriate to talk like this on a forum designed for speculators and the vendors who lurk here.

    Perhaps I should use some mathematical formulas, along with some option hedging strategies, mix in some credit default swaps. Now thats some sound financial advise.
    #20     Jul 18, 2006