Bro why don't you learn what you are talking about before you start postring retorts to someone that actually knows his material.. Try actually interracting with the industry instead of reading some BS rah rah book. It's not retiring at 50 but at 40 or even 35. Very very very few people in the world could handle making it and staying at the top of the IB ladder because you have to give up your life & your soul to the IB. The salaries & bonuses get huge, 300-400k a year is just top associate/VP salary. Problem is that most qualified candidates just burn out and fall apart, hence such high compensations (and even with the current salaries many won't do it). It takes a certain type of person to make it as an I-banker, borderline insane. You sacrifice everything, sleep, health, appearance, mental state of being. You LIVE Investment banking, that is it. It's sad watching these top level VPs and MDs trying to make friendly conversation with each other in the elevator, they have NOTHING to talk about except their work. By the time they can retire, they don't because they really have nothing to do with their time. I-bank is not "a pretty good place to work". You become a slave to the bank, period. Taking time off during any holidays such as good friday or christmas to go see your family is looked down upon. You are forced to live I-banking, 80-130 hours a week, no sleeps for days when required, abuse, insults & hours upon hours of mundane factory like work. Like my friend, a top level associate at Deutsche bank, says "You need a high tolerance for pain". To make a point, he is the highest paid associate at the bank, should have a VP title but he is ready to burn out big time. It's too early for him to "retire", way too early, so occasional alcoholic drink in the morning are a must. Oh yeah, coke also, that's like a normal thing in the I-banks. First year analysts are rushed in like a new shipment off a slave ship. Easily 90% of them will not make it to the associate level, that is the bottom line whether they are all idiots or all geniuses. The I-banks are very smart, they paint a facade of the Investment Banker that is fed to college kids all over (yeah I received it too). They get all these kids in, work them like slaves and ship them out to grad school. It's a great way to get cheap labor because at a fair hourly wage with overtime for the type of work that these kids do, the I-banks would go bankrupt. However, the I-bank experience is the best work experience you can get for Grad school. Period. So the experience is valuable, of couse another 4 years of school is not smth to be excited about unless MBA was ur goal from the start. That is a good approach to getting a trading desk because fresh out of 4 year school getting a job as an IB analyst is much easier than getting a job as an associate trader with an IB desk. With a quality MBA, more doors open to you at the trading desk but realize that MBAs are growing by huge increments while trading desk positions at IBs are actually decreasing.
well, as it turns out you are right with one respect; ET has turned me off. In terms of prop deals, I am still in the middle of interviewing with GHCO still. And i'll tell you one thing else. My degree and gpa are enough to qualify as "i banking material". My personality on the otherhand may not be. Rumor has it that plumbers in the UK can make over 100k a year contracting work. Thats probably more than the average punter, and might seem suitable for someone like myself. I've thought of taking low jobs like that and arcade trading, the kinds of jobs were the barrier to entry is open even to a social simpleton. I'm more open to this than most simply because I don't have to glorify my position to attain some degree of pedigree. My degree says it all. So the next time you see the manager at a Lacoste store making 90k, that might be me. I hope you're better at profiling the market, because you've done a terrible job from a factual point of view w/respect to me. btw, i don't really have a problem with prop trading. Its arcade traders as people in general. My experience has shown me that when you put a bunch of uneducated and potentially wealthy individuals together, you just end up with some really inflated people that cannot even hide or express themselves in such a way as to be "politely rude" And if I hadn't said it before, thank you for taking a few moments to inform me of the right and wrong choices in life. I would ask my father, but then again he'd probably have to type me a memo as his english is a little "foreign"
Great contributions, particularly Hydroblunt. PS when I was talking about i-bankers, I meant any schmoe working at GS, MSDW, CSFB etc etc I did not mean M&A, corporate finance, IPOs - investment banking proper. These guys do not have anything to do with prop or sales trading (supposedly b/c of chinese walls LOL) An indeed it's very profitable as long as there is M&A activity. But these guys are not traders, why do people mention these guys when this thread is about working AT an i-bank and those who work AS traders . M&A guys work relationships, have to make friends with CEOs, they have primarily excellent people and speaking skills. Their work is to persuade CEOs to make deals - any deals with their bank. Long hours as Hydroblunt points out.... analysts (guys just out of college) are practically slaves... Traders on the other hand do not persuade, they fight and compete against other traders. But you still have to "persuade" your boss to give you a fat bonus. I noticed that M&A groups pay special attention to membership to social and public speaking groups when checking out CVs. Trading groups laugh and make sarcastic comments about those. Numbers, computers market knowledge are more important here but you still have to have communication and presentation skills. Working at an i-bank is a valuable, eye-opening experience, and it's possible to make a comfortable living, I repeat not necessarily to become balance sheet wealthy.... but it's possible. It's tough, be careful what you wish for.
The best description of the job I have seen ..... Some of the comments here are confusing and completely counter to my experience: this one is as close to the reality I have seen. I think if you can go into the job (or a limited training program) you want directly from school (MBA or PhD) then you are getting a good deal. Promises of future promotions are most often carrots to get you to work like a dog. Take the analyst job if you value the training and savor the long hours and title. If not then shop around for a better deal.