That is very true (except in the US max is 50X). If you are able to take a small account and build it quickly then you do not need our firm nor our capital to trade the size necessary to trade for a living. However, using 100X leverage on your small account doesn't leave much room for error and one wrong trade can wipe out your entire account. But if you want to take your small account and demonstrate profitable and efficient short term trading we will let you trade an account that you can earn a living from. From: http://www.4xprop.com/faq.php 10. How long is the EPP? Typically 8-10 weeks. After that time, enough trading data has been generated to determine if a sub account will be offered for you to trade. The starting capital a trader is allocated depends on the size traded during the EPP and is gradually increased based on trading results. It is in our best interest to put our traders in the best position possible to make the most money for our traders and the firm. Again, please feel free to call or email us with any questions.
4xprop, Can you give us an idea of the minimum starting capital a trader can expect to get funded with once s/he passes the EPP ? Also, how much of a drawdown will be allowed? I understand prop firms are partial to short-term traders. What's the longest a position can be held? Thanks.
The amount allocated to a trader will vary depending on the size traded during the EPP. It will be a multiple of the average position size traded and will be increased based on results of actual trading. Drawdowns will also be dependent of the size of the drawdown experienced during the EPP. All sub accounts offered to traders will be personalized based on their EPP trading. We are looking for short term, active traders. There is no exact time that is "too long"....but we are looking for traders who are actively in front of their computers trading while they have positions.
Lets try it like this... If I use under 5% leverage and have less than 15% Intraday DD and I go through your 8-10 week screening process and lets say I make 30% each month and I trade 3-5 times per day with holding no more than 12 hours? whew! I have to take a breath...this was a long sentence. How much start capital can I get from day one, not later and will I get 50% of the profit from the get-go?? ElectricDon'tYouDareMilkMeAndBeDamnHonestWithMeNowSavant P.S. Do you receive any PIP rebates from my trading from FXCM directly or indirectly during my evaluation or after I am onboard or both? P.P.S. To make my post rather clear...Will I get 150K profit per month per Million in Capital allocated to me to trade, assuming I produce the above? P.P.S. Does FXCM have 2 PIPS or under in EUR/GBP? and how fast can FXCM handle size?
ES, I will do my best to answer your questions.... We look at a traders typical position size during the EPP....and that will differ depending on the trader. For example, a trader that trades a Standard Account with $2,000 and uses 25x leverage would probably have different position sizes than someone who has an Active Trader $5,000 account and uses 50x leverage. For traders that are offered positions as prop traders, we will ALWAYS start them with sub accounts that will allow them to trade larger size than they traded in their retail account. Furthermore, we will continually increase the sub account allocation based on the traders performance. The top tier for payouts is 50% and is based on profitability. 50% is available on Day 1 of trading a sub account. It is clearly explained in the Sub Contractor Agreement that we make available to review before participation in The EPP. The introducing broker does receive a rebate based on trading during the EPP. It is fully disclosed in the IB Trader Evaluation Agreement. The rebate is NOT added to the spreads. Traders would receive the same spreads if they went through the IB or went direct to FXCM. The rebate is paid to the IB, not 4XProp. The rebate paid to the IB is their compensation for screening, monitoring, and performing risk analysis. Furthermore, there are no rebates paid to the IB during trading in the sub accounts at 4XProp. We chose FXCM as an executing broker because of their size and ability to attract traders from all over the world. As of January 31, 2011, over 173,000 tradable accounts trade through trading platforms offered by FXCM from over 180 countries, with an average of over 6,700,000 trades executed each month; moreover, customer support is provided in over a dozen languages (from: http://www.fxcm.com/company-history.jsp ). We do feel that since they are one of the worlds largest FX brokers they have extremely competitive spreads and the ability to handle size. Please keep in mind that this is a TRUE prop trading model. We are only making money as a firm if our traders are making money trading. Our goal is to grow prop traders from a retail environment and put them in a position where they can trade for a living. The EPP and the trading of sub accounts at 4XProp is highly personalized and much easier to discuss on the phone, IM or email. We encourage anyone that is interested to please contact us.
Does anybody have an FXCM active trader account? Can you tell me what the typical spread is for EUR/GBP? Is it as good as this below? (1.20-2.00 PIPS..most of the time 1.20 or 1.30) ES
The guidelines are vague. And considering you need to make thousands and thousands of trades to prove consistency and profitability.. the rebate churn becomes a VERY REAL costly problem. (although the rebate does not count in your performance eval.. they still took your money.. you can just look over that can't you? your going to get hired!) This is an IB gimmick under the guise of proprietary trading; an attempt to attract the thousands upon thousands of retail FX traders and make them believe they are prospective trading pros / or 'elite traders'. A prop shop suggesting you open an account with a retail broker to be evaluated to get "hired" while you get rebate churned regardless of getting "employed" should be a red-flag. This is bribing someone to be a customer. This just adds to the list of words FXCM (and other retail brokers) are misusing. FXCM marketing team strikes again!
4Xprop isn't for everyone. It is for active traders that want to trade professionally. If active trading isn't the type of trading you currently do and are comfortable with than 4XProp probably isn't a good fit. Again, We are looking for traders that already trade actively so we are not asking you to churn your account or change your style. Our definition of short term active trading is trading that takes place while you are in from of your computer. We do not have a specific number of trades per day required. Where is a "red-flag" in having your trading analyzed for a short period of timing....especially if you already trade at FXCM!!!! Even better, if you are already at FXCM and have over $5,000 in your account you can qualify for the Active Trader account and trade with better spreads than you are currently trading with. The internet, and sites like Elitetrader, has brought the trading community closer together. Scams and dishonest business practices are now quickly made public. Furthermore, the forex trading community is highly skeptical. I know of at least five "prop trading" firms that claim that they allow you to "trade our money", but first you must pay then $10,000 to learn their "system"...then they will let you lose some of your $10,000 trading before they cut you off. That is clearly a gimmick. We are not a gimmick. If profitable and efficient traders go through the EPP and are not offered sub accounts than we would be "called out" on the internet pretty fast. We would prefer that this thread doesn't turn into a bashing of a new concept in prop trading. If it doesn't sound like it's a good fit for a trader than we understand and wish them luck with their other avenue to prop trading. However, we have been a sponsor on Elitetrader for five years for our equity trading prop firm and realize that the community here is highly critical. We will do our best to address legitimate questions here but prefer to talk to traders personally. Again, for anyone interested please contact us personally either by email, phone or IM or find out more information at www.4XProp.com .
luv big numbers "As of January 31, 2011, over 173,000 tradable accounts trade through trading platforms offered by FXCM from over 180 countries, with an average of over 6,700,000 trades executed each month;" 6700000 / 173000 = 38.73 / 22 days per month = 1.76 trades per day "Customer equity of $641.2 million: Tradeable accounts of 175,240 - FXCM Q4 and Full Year 2010 Results" $641200000 / 175240 = $3,658.98 per tradeable account - up $1K since last calc
The red-flag is in the IB requirement to sign up to be "evaluated." I would appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth. I said that you need make thousands and thousands of trades in spot fx to prove profitability and consistency. IE. if you make < 100 trades a month.. it would take a longer time to analyze consistency. (This comment being in-line with your "active trader requirement"). AND THUS, you would collect rebate from the thousands and thousands of trades. P.S. You would jizz your pants if you knew how many trades I work on a daily basis.